Amen, cigarman. For the life of me I cannot understand why people ***** and whine about about a terrific, free resource that has benefitted every member here at one time or another. A little downtime at Flyertalk is hardly the end of the world.

I for one am grateful to Randy, the Flyertalk staff and all the members who constructively post information here.

Not so sure. Randy told me once what FT directly cost him in money each year, and it was a pretty big figure and I do not doubt the accuracy of that figure.

"Insideflyer" Magazine I have no real info on, but as the magazine sells subscriptions and ads, my *guess* is that is a profit centre. I see no evidence that magazine is in any way a "club"?

FT - apart from being a fine and FREE resource for most of us, who appreciate it, is a unique sounding board for Randy and his staff. I could be wrong but imagine it is broadly in the category of a "research tool" ... you lose money on the bare bones existence of it, but simply by being there it assists other aspects of the organisation. Randy employs a couple of dozen staff, and IF and FT are only a small part of his diverse flying/points related business AFAIK.

I have often seen posts by staff asking for our general thoughts on this idea, or that proposal, or this possibility etc, and they get a dozen fast responses from heavy users of that hotel/airline. As an "instant" market research tool for many aspects - FT is pretty unbeatable.

------------------
~ Glen ~

Come and visit the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 03-07-2003).]

Well if you read Inside Flyertalk, this IS the attitude of one of their marketing VP's---forget his name. FT represents a high-spending and loyal clientele of Continental Airlines. To dismiss complaints of your biggest spending clients is foolish but then again, CO is losing more and more money. Funny how that happens when you alienate business flyers. What irks me is that CO will run to the federal gov't like a spoiled brat to his father demanding more money. Makes me sick.

For someone who claims to be mature, you're sure sounding like an idiot.

My "relationship to Randy" is he is someone who I talk to maybe 10 times a year, who I often do not agree with but who I respect a great deal, and someone who I and two other Flyertalkers bought the "Flyertalk" domain for and presented it to at an event called "PIP" (while you probably were still in diapers). We did so in appreciation of his efforts on behalf of our community - the community of frequent flyers.

Regarding the article, one of his reporters called me and I answered his questions. Period.

You know, as a guest in someone's house, I wouldn't throw too many stones at my host. If I were upset, I'd just leave.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-07-2003).]

If I was quoting someone in my magazine that gave to me my most popular website, I would indicate that fact. If I was writing *four grafs* about the guy in the top half of my cover story, I would extensively disclaim at the point of reference, or at the end of the article.

Evidently, Flyertalk has six million members. It is arguably the most-high profile component of the WebFlyer network. You gave the editor and owner of InsideFlyer that flyertalk.com domain.

That relationship, even as you described it, compels a responsible journalist to fully disclaim or footnote. It's that simple. If anyone with legitimate reporting experience disagrees with me, I'll gladly retract.

If you're suggesting that Randy wants to bounce me, so be it. I enjoyed and used the information shared on this and other boards, and appreciate the opportunity to share my (limited) knowledge and (probably too extensive) research.

Putting aside my rant about my journalistic credentials, if Randy had to limit the people quoted in Inside Flyer to those who were not flyertalkers that he has either bought dinner for or received dinner from, or no one that bought ads from him, there would be no one to quote - ever. We were a tight, generous community a few years back...then all heck broke loose.

The cost of registering the Flyertalk domain was a whopping $25 split three ways between Catman, Rudi and I. Here's a link to the wonderful community event that took place seemingly a lifetime ago:
http://www.flyertalk.com/pip/pipfr4.shtml

(By the way, Randy bought T-shirts and dinner for everyone there, so I guess he should print disclaimers for everytime any of those frequent flyers are quoted in a frequent flyer magazine.)

And on your final point, I do not speak for Randy or Inside flyer (as I said - disagreeing with them so much that I have even been hit with a time-out.) If he wants to bounce you just for being a jerk, that's his decision. But much to my dismay, that's never been enough of a criterion before.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-07-2003).]

Ok, I just wanted to step in hear and ask that the topic be turned back to the fact that the chat was cancelled. That is what the thread is about. Not about bashing Flyer Talk and each other.

Thanks in advance




[This message has been edited by umguy (edited 03-07-2003).]

Awright - I'm just gonna make one last post about this (people are going to check in tomorrow morning and go, "...? Oh, it's just those two again.")

If you can't understand the logic here, and still claim to have journalistic knowledge, evidently there's another flavor of Kool-Aid being mixed - let's call it orange.

Editors receiving lunch from subjects is normal. Editors writing about advertisers is normal. Editors giving out t-shirts to subjects is insignificant.

Editors receiving domain names from subjects is incredibly important, and something that absolutely needs to be disclosed when the subject's POV is featured. NJDavid, you know as well as everyone, that you capturing "flyertalk.com" was important, not because it saved Randy $25, but because it prevented others from taking and hijacking the domain. Your contribution to Randy's business was, and will always be, significant. If you donated sportsillustrated.com to Time, Inc., and were quoted in Time magazine about a pet cause of yours, I'd feel the same way about the need to properly identify your relationship with the company.

My original implication was that IF was run a little "looser" than a real magazine, and more like a club newsletter. While the lack of disclosure about you is (in my view) the only significant problem, the article in question also includes unattributed references to Flyertalk and "the popular FlyerTalk Live!" that would give Steve Brill a heart attack.

http://www.insideflyer.com/articles/article.php?key=952 (article)

Randy has admitted in the past when IF didn't properly attribute. It's not malicious, I'm sure.


P.S. Stop calling me an idiot and a jerk. Makes me cry.

So I will as well.

If I had been one of three people who secured and donated sportsillustrated.com (at a time when these things meant very little) and then Time Magazine ran an article about - let's say people who live in my house, it would be journalistically irresponsible for them to ignore me as the perfect representative of this group regardless of any of my past actions.

In this case, a reporter for Inside Flyer (not Randy) was writing a story on Frequent Flyers who have set up websites to protest airline cutbacks. It would have been iresponsible if they did not reference the first one ever - which I assisted in the creation of. The reporter (and I assume editor) are responsible for the "cause" and any treatment of it in the article - not me. You might consider that it is not reflective of any "personal pet cause" of mine, but rather a hugely important concern of everyone in this community - except you of course.

Finally, if I do have some sort of special "relationship" with Inside Flyer, I didn't know about it. I pay for my subscription, so that can't be it. Also, Luggage Tags were originally my idea (oh, oh - another intellectual donation there) and I don't even have one of the new ones! Randy, are there boxes of goodies like free miles, free t-shirts and most of all cash that you've been holding for me that I don't know about? If so, please send them ASAP to the address on my subscription...thanks.

My apologies to the community for engaging in the off-topic debate. I felt compelled to reply to the accusations against me. I'm sure Inside Flyer can and will reply for themselves.


[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-07-2003).]

Looks like you need to update your bio then!

http://www.ityt.com/dbaker/

In any case, throwing cheap shots at Randy & Co. seems to be somewhat of a hobby.

Always enjoy reading this from the creator of the "fastest growing Internet travel community." You know, the one that has gone from 2768 to 3713 articles posted from September 2002 to March 2003. Must be difficult keeping up with all that traffic.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../006123-2.html

At least Randy is on firm ground when FT is said to be the world's most popular FF community. Given the extremely dubious claims you make about ITYT, I wonder if we should take your bio seriously? Funny how that credibility thing is. Cheers!

Ok, here I go again. Can we please keep this thread on topic. If we can't get it back on track, I will be forced to close the thread.

Umguy
FT Moderator

Alright - but it is fun to blame continental.

Anyway - Has there been a new date setup for the chat yet?

boy, that's not a nice thing to say (nor is it mature).

we (NJDavid leading, Catman and I 'just' followers) did only register www.flyertalk.com and later, at the PiP gift it to Randy.

This had little to do with the already successfull FlyerTalk Forum (that did run before under another ...com).

That's all, nothing more. It was a small PiP-gesture from us to Randy - nothing in comparison what he gifted/spnsored at that PiP event to all participating FrequentFliers.

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 03-16-2003).]

Randy is truly one class act!