I don't have all the details yet, but a coworker of mine was held on an CO airplane from EWR - CLE for over 6 hours (without leaving the plan) last Friday due to weather. While we realize CO can't change mother nature, were they right in keeping him on board for so long?

I don't think it was right. He will be sending a letter. Please help me/him formulate it. Specifically, what should he ask for.

Thanks for the help.

This past Sunday, I was held up on CO 489 (EWR-DTW) for 4 hours because of storms west of EWR. We were all set for the 3:25 p.m. departure when the Captain informed us of the storms and that EWR ATC was holding all departures to the west. The Captain said he didn't have any further information and that the delay could be anywhere from 30 minutes to three or more hours. He said we would stay at the gate for as long as possible, but it wouldn't be too long before he would be forced to push back to free up the gate.

The captain gave us the option to leave the aircraft and warned us several times that we could be out on the tarmac for three or more hours. About five people left the plane before we pushed back.

While on the tarmac, the F/A's provided full bar service in FC and gave water and orange juice with pretzels in coach continously for the 4 hours we sat out on the tarmac. The captain further gave us updates every thirty minutes or as soon as he found out more information from ATC. They also let us move about the cabin and lifted the restriction for cellular phone usage and other electronic devices while out on the tarmac.

It certainly was not the best time of my life, but I cannot blame CO. Why?

1) The delay was completely out of CO's control - EWR ATC wouldn't permit them to takeoff because of weather.
2) The captain informed us the delay could be over three hours on the tarmac and gave us the option to leave the plane.
3) They served us to the best of their ability while on the ground.

I don't know if your collegue had the same options/treatment as I had (e.g., the option to leave the plane, being honest with us from the start, etc.), but I have no reason to complain.

When I got home from work yesterday, I had a voicemail from CO customer care apologizing for the long delay in my flight (I didn't even complain to them). Way to go CO!

The problem in not the airlines its the FAA.

On of the reasons the airlines tend to leave people on the panes is that when ATC releases a ground stop they often give planes a very short takeoff window, I've seen as short as 5 minutes, if they arent airbourne by then, ATC can resind the takeoff clearance, resulting in further delays. So if they go back to gate, and let people off they could end of lengthening the delay by missing a takeoff spot.

The airlines are in a no-win situation.

Too bad some presidental candidate doesn't have a slogan "It's the FAA stupid".

That's true. When ATC lifted its restriction, we were ready and were number two in line for take-off, thus minimizing the delay. If we were still at the gate, CO wouldn't have enough time to round-up all the passengers to make our number two take-off slot.

I agree. It's not the airlines fault that there was weather problems. But it sounds like the airline has no blame and that is incorrect.

IF the delay was 1 hour, I agree, its weather, but 6 hours? Basically there is a point to everything. At some time into the delay, common sense has to kick in and tell you the weather is not clearing. After an hour, why not go back to the gate and then reboard four hours later. This way the plane will still be ready to use its slot and the passengers will be happier as a result.

To answer the other question posed by TX_flyer. No he did not have even the slighest idea there was a weather problem. He was early to EWR so he went to the gate and asked to get on the earlier flight. NO mention was of the fact that the earlier flight was scheduled to depart at 12 and it was then almost 4. In fact, the read-out above the gate showed a departure time of 3:55pm. The check-in person should have made him aware.

He is not blaming the airline for weather or the delay, just the way they handled it. Remember that Customer First stuff?

Airlines also pull their planes back from the gate for on-time departure rankings. Even if your held on the ground for a total of eight hours, if you push back from the gate within 15 minutes of scheduled departure, you're on-time according to the DOT.

Also, I doubt that airlines, as a rule, would always want to give their customers the opportunity to get off the flight. While I suppose that each captain may have some discretion, keep in mind that each pax who gets off is likely lost (or potentially lost) revenue.

Indeed, the government has little to do with it. When it doubt, remember this: the FAA/ATC has cancelled a whopping ZERO flights in its entire history. Government gives directives, but it's the airlines that make you wait on the plane or cancel your flight.

neo-781,

I agree that there is a certain threshold where the airline has to say enough is enough - even for a weather delay. I was actually on the plane for 6 hours (including flight time). I must confess, however, that I was in First Class, had a few Sam Adams, and was sleeping like a baby for a couple hours . I guess if I was stuck in a middle seat in coach for 6 hours I would be singing an entirely different tune. It's a tough situation for both the airline and passenger and no one wins at the end.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by TX_flyer (edited 07-18-2000).]

I've got to believe that after all this time there are all kinds of statistics on delays, weather patterns, and so on. Taking those into account, a nice cushion of spacing can be taken into account when scheduling flights across the airlines.

Instead, the schedules are set up unrealistically in pretense that the weather is always fair and clear everywhere.

So when bad weather comes, instead of pointing to unrealistic (and economically unsound perhaps when the wheather IS fair) scheduling plans, we can blame the weather with impunity. Or else blame the passengers, since we are only responding to demand by scheduling all those flights.

I mean, how many inconveniences must be put up with before a reasonable person can conclude that, yes, weather happens, and we can expect it to continue to happen in the future.

Something in me just can't see the airlines as completely blameless in this, must be that streak of pure cussedness.

Ronin,
That would be impossible for the airlines to build in seasonal "cushions" for the weather. With landing and departure slots so heavily regulated, it's not like CO, UA, or whomever can build in an additional two hours into the flight time in the winter let's say, and show up that much earlier on a clear day and expect to shoo right into LGA, EWR, or ORD.

Besides, who'll want to book a flight only to learn the flight time'll be 4 hrs 37 mins. LGA-ORD: "Why the long flight time? Well in case O'Hare gets socked in due to snow. Look on the bright side, you may arrive early!"

WX is a fact of life that we cannot control.

I seriously doubt that CO lost revenue, or a significant amount anyways, because the Captain gave passengers the option to get off the plane. In cases of weather, I believe that most passengers are re-scheduled on the same airline that cancelled the flight. This weather problem certainly was not unique to CO. For those four hours, I don't believe that any airline could have taken me from EWR-DTW in a reasonable amount of time by avoiding the storm.



[This message has been edited by TX_flyer (edited 07-18-2000).]

Bear in mind that one can usually get an involuntary refund (even on nonref tickets) due to severe weather cancelling many/all the flights of the day. This is especially true during snowstorms.

I think we've come across an interesting situation. While we all realize that the airline can't control the weather, they can control their response to sed event. To that end, what do people feel an airline SHOULD do.

This is not necessarily specific to CO.

Updates are nice. Food is good too.

In the end though we should not have to feel lucky when we finally leave. Remember you've paid for the privilage of being cooped up for hours.

Thoughts, comments, etc...

1. Firm, STONE-WRITTEN limits on the maximum permissible length of a delay before the flight MUST be cancelled. (e.g., 180 mins. domestic, 240 mins. intl.)

2. An end to the lie that ATC cancels flights. I have already explained the background on this before.

3. The ability to get off a flight that is delayed over 120 mins., with a full refund offered, no questions asked.


#3 can be flexed a bit, but 1 and 2 are non-negotiable, IMHO.

AVEK,

For your information, on time flights are not only measured by the time that they push back, but also by the time that they reach their destination. Any flight that arrives within 14 minutes of it's scheduled time that also pushed within 15 mins of the departure time is considered on time. So in cases of these delays, it does them no good in respect to their numbers to release the flight and then sit and wait.

[This message has been edited by Red Tails (edited 07-19-2000).]

To the person who suggested that flights be cancelled after a certain amount of time.

Let's say that the DTW-EWR flight that was cancelled was to make up your flight out of EWR. I would bet you would be singing a different tune and have the flight run hours late rather than be cancelled because of a mandatory time limit.