Pretty Dramatic Fare Difference Between UA & CO NYC-SFO
Sep 13, 2011 | 1:28 pm
#1
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Pretty Dramatic Fare Difference Between UA & CO NYC-SFO
I know this has been discussed a few times on here but I just went to book a flight between NYC-SFO on 11/12. My choice was an M fare (no instant-upgrade available) on CO for $1,317 or UA for $741. Thats almost double the price, which is pretty nuts and impossible to justify if on the companies dime. Wonder what this route will look like next year? Will it always be cheaper out of JFK due to stiffer competition compared to EWR?
Last edited by BigPoppaCO; Sep 13, 2011 at 1:33 pm
Sep 13, 2011 | 1:42 pm
#2
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Yes, EWR and JFK are in many ways separate markets, even though they both serve NYC. I think you are right on the money about competition. UA and CO were the only airlines to offer non-stop SFO-EWR flights and now that they are merging there is just one carrier serving that nonstop. JFK-SFO on the other hand has AA, DL, B9, VX, and UA (did I forget any?), so it is often far more price friendly. To answer the OP's question, I don't think next year will be any different.
Ironically, I find the UA ps SFO-JFK flights to be far more comfortable than the CO or UA EWR flights. The premium seats offer much more room and wifi is a great amenity, although the CO food trumps even the UA ps food.
Ironically, I find the UA ps SFO-JFK flights to be far more comfortable than the CO or UA EWR flights. The premium seats offer much more room and wifi is a great amenity, although the CO food trumps even the UA ps food.
Sep 13, 2011 | 6:11 pm
#3
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Yes, EWR and JFK are in many ways separate markets, even though they both serve NYC. I think you are right on the money about competition. UA and CO were the only airlines to offer non-stop SFO-EWR flights and now that they are merging there is just one carrier serving that nonstop. JFK-SFO on the other hand has AA, DL, B9, VX, and UA (did I forget any?), so it is often far more price friendly. To answer the OP's question, I don't think next year will be any different.
Ironically, I find the UA ps SFO-JFK flights to be far more comfortable than the CO or UA EWR flights. The premium seats offer much more room and wifi is a great amenity, although the CO food trumps even the UA ps food.
Ironically, I find the UA ps SFO-JFK flights to be far more comfortable than the CO or UA EWR flights. The premium seats offer much more room and wifi is a great amenity, although the CO food trumps even the UA ps food.
Sep 13, 2011 | 7:49 pm
#4
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Same difference looking at LGA vs. EWR to ORD and DEN...UA always going to come out cheaper vs. CO, especially if booking a 3 day or under trip.
Sep 13, 2011 | 9:03 pm
#5
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I never really understood the LGA/EWR difference to ORD. EWR had/has CO/UA/AA and LGA has IIRC UA/AA/DL. You can get a cheap fare ex-LGA without onerous adv purch requirements, but from EWR if you're < 7 days the fares can be quite high. Is WN still flying LGA-MDW? Maybe that's it.
Sep 14, 2011 | 7:07 am
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I never really understood the LGA/EWR difference to ORD. EWR had/has CO/UA/AA and LGA has IIRC UA/AA/DL. You can get a cheap fare ex-LGA without onerous adv purch requirements, but from EWR if you're < 7 days the fares can be quite high. Is WN still flying LGA-MDW? Maybe that's it.
AFAIK WN still flies LGA-MDW.
It's not just the <7 days from EWR issue - you can put in a EWR-ORD r/t on CO 330 days from now and it's still going to be 3x that from LGA (I see $722 + tax for an Aug '12 trip). It's that they have a monopoly at the airport.
Sep 14, 2011 | 7:13 am
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I don't agree with that at all. The vast majority of EWR's originating passengers come out of the NYC market, that is passengers who could conveniently fly out of LGA and JFK if they so choose.
I think the main difference on these routes ex-EWR is the lack of direct competition at EWR.
Then again, it's a highly variable metric and there have certainly been many cases in the past when EWR was less expensive than JFK on these same routes.
I think the main difference on these routes ex-EWR is the lack of direct competition at EWR.
Then again, it's a highly variable metric and there have certainly been many cases in the past when EWR was less expensive than JFK on these same routes.
Sep 14, 2011 | 7:15 am
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Sep 14, 2011 | 7:22 am
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I think it demonstrates that the total capacity on these transcons ex-EWR is low enough that they don't need to compete with all the carriers plying these routes out of JFK.
Sep 14, 2011 | 7:54 am
#10
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I wonder if CO/UA will consider running a few PS flights from EWR instead of the usual 738/9
Sep 14, 2011 | 1:52 pm
#11
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My experience, with lowest fares at the time I want to fly, is the opposite of what's reported here. For Thursday evening NYC to SFO, Monday afternoon SFO to NYC, I find that CO out of EWR is usually cheaper than UA ps service out of JFK.
Sep 14, 2011 | 2:30 pm
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You're lucky to be flying a 4 day route with CO, so no minimum length of stay cost issues. If you had a 1-3 day travel pattern, you'd find CO much less affordable relative to UA.
Sep 14, 2011 | 9:34 pm
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Well, not really. I just looked at tomorrow's schedule. From LGA you have AA (17x), UA (18x), DL (12x) and WN (5x). UA has 34% of daily departures, but probably more in terms of actual seats since DL uses E75s.
From EWR you have AA (7x), UA/CO (8x/7x) and WN (6x). UACO has 53% of daily departures.
It doesn't seem the difference in market share (admittedly a crude analysis) is so dramatically different to cause EWR-CHI fares to be that much higher than from LGA. Especially since WN serves both. Maybe it's really DL behaving "irrationally" on this route with their shuttle service.
From EWR you have AA (7x), UA/CO (8x/7x) and WN (6x). UACO has 53% of daily departures.
It doesn't seem the difference in market share (admittedly a crude analysis) is so dramatically different to cause EWR-CHI fares to be that much higher than from LGA. Especially since WN serves both. Maybe it's really DL behaving "irrationally" on this route with their shuttle service.
Sep 14, 2011 | 9:52 pm
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Well, not really. I just looked at tomorrow's schedule. From LGA you have AA (17x), UA (18x), DL (12x) and WN (5x). UA has 34% of daily departures, but probably more in terms of actual seats since DL uses E75s.
From EWR you have AA (7x), UA/CO (8x/7x) and WN (6x). UACO has 53% of daily departures.
It doesn't seem the difference in market share (admittedly a crude analysis) is so dramatically different to cause EWR-CHI fares to be that much higher than from LGA. Especially since WN serves both. Maybe it's really DL behaving "irrationally" on this route with their shuttle service.
From EWR you have AA (7x), UA/CO (8x/7x) and WN (6x). UACO has 53% of daily departures.
It doesn't seem the difference in market share (admittedly a crude analysis) is so dramatically different to cause EWR-CHI fares to be that much higher than from LGA. Especially since WN serves both. Maybe it's really DL behaving "irrationally" on this route with their shuttle service.
This is just CO's style of pricing out of its hubs.
Sep 15, 2011 | 9:27 am
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This is just CO's style of pricing out of its hubs.
I really think it's DL (or more specifically Shuttle America) driving the NYC pricing down. It seems AA likes the premium EWR pricing and for whatever reason (MDW?), WN's ~20% share isn't impacting the legacies.