Arbitration in favor of Continental Pilots
Jan 3, 2011, 1:08 pm
#151
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14
Hull loss typically means that the airplane is totally destroyed, where this one most of it was salvaged, however Continental did write it off because of the structural damage - semantics really beacuse everyone walked off it. My statistic was really referring to a total loss of life on an airplane - no mainline accidents like that, but four regional accidents since 2002 resulting in a total loss of life. Actually I think there was a small baby that survived the Delta Connection Lexington accident.
Jan 3, 2011, 2:06 pm
#152
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K on final to 2MM
Posts: 144
We need to keep things in perspective too.
Plenty of mainline pilots today make about $65k a year. I wonder who out there thinks that is "big money?"
Also, the promise of the bigger salary at the end of a long, grueling career is the incentive that drives young people to fly for airlines like Colgan at McDonald's wages.
Finally, regarding the comments about CEO's pay. Let's not forget that the very first step taken by $mi$ek as CEO od UaCo was to nearly double his own salary, and that of half a dozen of his closest pals.
He also put in place an incentive package, that if the conditions are met, would pay the 32 or so top executives of the company $60 million.
The next step was to violate the company's CBA with its pilots and bring in UaEx planes to CO.
And the next step will be to eliminate E+.
When Smisek talks about "changes you will like" in his greeting video, I think he made a mistake on the script, which actually read:
"changes I will like."
That's all...just a little one word error...
Plenty of mainline pilots today make about $65k a year. I wonder who out there thinks that is "big money?"
Also, the promise of the bigger salary at the end of a long, grueling career is the incentive that drives young people to fly for airlines like Colgan at McDonald's wages.
Finally, regarding the comments about CEO's pay. Let's not forget that the very first step taken by $mi$ek as CEO od UaCo was to nearly double his own salary, and that of half a dozen of his closest pals.
He also put in place an incentive package, that if the conditions are met, would pay the 32 or so top executives of the company $60 million.
The next step was to violate the company's CBA with its pilots and bring in UaEx planes to CO.
And the next step will be to eliminate E+.
When Smisek talks about "changes you will like" in his greeting video, I think he made a mistake on the script, which actually read:
"changes I will like."
That's all...just a little one word error...
Last edited by bankerflyer; Jan 3, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Jan 3, 2011, 2:19 pm
#153
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
Here http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hull_Loss is a definition of hull loss. I believe the DEN incident qualifies.
David
Last edited by DiverDave; Jan 3, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Jan 3, 2011, 2:37 pm
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
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Hull loss typically means that the airplane is totally destroyed
Jan 3, 2011, 3:05 pm
#155
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: Whatever gets me there faster.
Posts: 746
Last I checked, USAirways 1549 was a complete write-off.
Jan 3, 2011, 3:20 pm
#156
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Homosassa, FL & Ringwood, NJ -UA-G(Lifetime); SPG-Plat (Lifetime)
Posts: 6,120
AA 331 Kingston, Jamaica. 12/2009.
While not a hull loss, AA 2324 (a 752) that ran 650 feet over the runway into the snow at Jackson Hole the other day was very lucky. The snow probably prevented a real catastrophe.
While not a hull loss, AA 2324 (a 752) that ran 650 feet over the runway into the snow at Jackson Hole the other day was very lucky. The snow probably prevented a real catastrophe.
Last edited by Vulcan; Jan 3, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Jan 3, 2011, 3:25 pm
#157
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14
The First Officer survived with brain damage.
Nice data picking. What happens if you pick a start date of 2001?
Here http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hull_Loss is a definition of hull loss. I believe the DEN incident qualifies.
David
Nice data picking. What happens if you pick a start date of 2001?
Here http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hull_Loss is a definition of hull loss. I believe the DEN incident qualifies.
David
Jan 3, 2011, 3:30 pm
#160
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14
[QUOTE=Vulcan;15574942]AA 331 Kingston, Jamaica. 12/2009.
no fatalities
no fatalities
Jan 3, 2011, 4:50 pm
#162
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
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Now, what's the casualty count of the 4 versus the 1?
David
Jan 3, 2011, 4:55 pm
#163
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14
Pardon me. I misspoke. Okay, how about non-anectodal evidence. From the NTSB website: since 2002, there have been no mainline accidents resulting in the loss of the lives of all on board, however there have been 4 regional airline accidents which resulted in a loss of all passengers and crew on board.
Jan 3, 2011, 6:36 pm
#164
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
Your first problem is that out of about a billion flights per decade, 4 and 1 are both essentially 0. There are also a lot more regional airlines flights per day than mainline flights, so even all things equal, you'd expect a ratio of about 2 to 1.
Your second problem assumes that all equipment is equal. Mainline aircraft have more and better systems to prevent them from crashing, and are also less susceptible to crashing due to things like ice on wings.
And to be completely economically rational about it, it doesn't make economic sense to pay the mainline pilots what they are paid over the regional pilots for two reasons:
1) Even as a straight math problem, the additional money paid to the mainline pilots isn't worth preventing the two crashes.
2) Even if it was, and even if higher pay made a difference, you would be better off paying all pilots the same average wage and paying the regional pilots more. No pilot making $30k/yr is almost certainly better than some pilots making 150k+.
Last edited by raehl311; Jan 3, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Jan 3, 2011, 7:09 pm
#165
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,660
Like watching a school of piranhas chew on a leg of beef......