New Reciprocal Upgrade Benefits with United, Eff. Mid-2010 [threads merged]
Nov 17, 2009, 10:32 am
#136
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Programs: Hyatt LT Globalist, Marriot LT Titanium, UA 2.4MM, HH Gold, AS MVPG
Posts: 3,402
Wow - this is great. Thank you for confirming. It will be interesting to see if UA will line-up with this when it finalizes it's UDU program. Now I'm having difficulty again deciding weather or not to earn CO Plat next year, think I will though. So CO Plat and UA 1K - the best of both worlds it seems.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:33 am
#137
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,472
What innacuracy?
There is not a single UA a/c configuted for domestic that has fewer FC seats than any CO jet (UA A-319 8 FC seats/ CO 735 8 FC seats).
UA also has wideobdies configured for domestic that have FC sections with 34 and 36 seats. The largest domestic FC cabin on CO in is the 753 with 24 seats.
So the absolute inventory per UA a/c is far in excess of the absolute inventory per CO a/c.
When comparing ratios, you must factor in E+. On CO, there will typically be 4 good exit-row seats (a maximum of 12, including 6 that don't recline and 4 middle seats). On UA's smallest mainline a/c (the A-319) you have 40 E+ seats. And on UA's domestic 777 there are 89 E+ seats.
89 seats with adequate legroom vs. 12 on CO...
There is not a single UA a/c configuted for domestic that has fewer FC seats than any CO jet (UA A-319 8 FC seats/ CO 735 8 FC seats).
UA also has wideobdies configured for domestic that have FC sections with 34 and 36 seats. The largest domestic FC cabin on CO in is the 753 with 24 seats.
So the absolute inventory per UA a/c is far in excess of the absolute inventory per CO a/c.
When comparing ratios, you must factor in E+. On CO, there will typically be 4 good exit-row seats (a maximum of 12, including 6 that don't recline and 4 middle seats). On UA's smallest mainline a/c (the A-319) you have 40 E+ seats. And on UA's domestic 777 there are 89 E+ seats.
89 seats with adequate legroom vs. 12 on CO...
For the other point, sbm12 and fozz chimed in on this already, but if you run the numbers, you will see that CO has a greater absolute number of F seats on the narrowbody mainline fleet, as well as a better F/Y ratio. Even if we were to consider the domestic widebody fleet, to be fair, they are pretty densely configured, at least compared to their longhaul counterparts. The domestic 763 is 34F/210Y, coming in at just shy of 14% F seats out of the total. This is a comparable ratio to the 737-900ER at 20/153. Their domestic 777 is even worse, configured 36/312 for a whopping 348 pax... only 11% are F seats. This is comparable to CO's 737-700 or 757-200. Incidentally, both domestic widebody configurations fall below UA's average F/Y ratio.
My point is that the domestic widebodies do not skew the numbers in UA's favor unless you calculate the impact in gross.
I don't want to be miscast as CO-cheerleading right now, because CO does not have an answer for E+ or explus with F/E+ on RJ's. I just want to point out the fact that one area where CO does not fall short is in the F/Y mix of its fleet.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:34 am
#138
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Maybe. But your post was asserting that UA has more F seats, not that they have more F and pseudo-F/E+ seats. That was the point I was correcting.
Of course UA has more E+ seats. After all, they have E+. Believe it or not, that's not enough to get me to switch my loyalty. And I'm not particularly hub captive.
Of course UA has more E+ seats. After all, they have E+. Believe it or not, that's not enough to get me to switch my loyalty. And I'm not particularly hub captive.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:35 am
#139
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 41
On CO, upgrades are possible on all domestic-configured aircraft, including on flights that go outside the US (eg to Canada, Mexico, Central America, etc). Will the same be true on UA?
Nov 17, 2009, 10:36 am
#140
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
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As co gold, PE now looks like a great deal. 1k looks great with the best of both worlds.
I think it is time to defect.
As co gold, PE now looks like a great deal. 1k looks great with the best of both worlds.
I think it is time to defect.
Did that back in April and UA comped me PE (their Gold) which they wont do now that both are *A
So now a person has to start with UA at ground zero, at least I was able to get 100% bonus RDMs from get go and Club entrance when on an Intl flight, plus E+ confirmed at time of purchase
To be honest , till today I was still going back and forth which Carrier should I go after their top level for 1st, now that seems to be solved
Nov 17, 2009, 10:42 am
#142
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Nov 17, 2009, 10:43 am
#143
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
Nov 17, 2009, 10:51 am
#144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
Posts: 10,008
I'm not disagreeing with you entirely... CO with E+ would be an excellent benefit and I think they need to add it in order to better synchronize with UA. CO does not have a similar product to E+ and your comparison of "good" coach seats between the two is valid.
For the other point, sbm12 and fozz chimed in on this already, but if you run the numbers, you will see that CO has a greater absolute number of F seats on the narrowbody mainline fleet, as well as a better F/Y ratio. Even if we were to consider the domestic widebody fleet, to be fair, they are pretty densely configured, at least compared to their longhaul counterparts. The domestic 763 is 34F/210Y, coming in at just shy of 14% F seats out of the total. This is a comparable ratio to the 737-900ER at 20/153. Their domestic 777 is even worse, configured 36/312 for a whopping 348 pax... only 11% are F seats. This is comparable to CO's 737-700 or 757-200. Incidentally, both domestic widebody configurations fall below UA's average F/Y ratio.
My point is that the domestic widebodies do not skew the numbers in UA's favor unless you calculate the impact in gross.
I don't want to be miscast as CO-cheerleading right now, because CO does not have an answer for E+ or explus with F/E+ on RJ's. I just want to point out the fact that one area where CO does not fall short is in the F/Y mix of its fleet.
For the other point, sbm12 and fozz chimed in on this already, but if you run the numbers, you will see that CO has a greater absolute number of F seats on the narrowbody mainline fleet, as well as a better F/Y ratio. Even if we were to consider the domestic widebody fleet, to be fair, they are pretty densely configured, at least compared to their longhaul counterparts. The domestic 763 is 34F/210Y, coming in at just shy of 14% F seats out of the total. This is a comparable ratio to the 737-900ER at 20/153. Their domestic 777 is even worse, configured 36/312 for a whopping 348 pax... only 11% are F seats. This is comparable to CO's 737-700 or 757-200. Incidentally, both domestic widebody configurations fall below UA's average F/Y ratio.
My point is that the domestic widebodies do not skew the numbers in UA's favor unless you calculate the impact in gross.
I don't want to be miscast as CO-cheerleading right now, because CO does not have an answer for E+ or explus with F/E+ on RJ's. I just want to point out the fact that one area where CO does not fall short is in the F/Y mix of its fleet.
Second, regarding FC/Y ratios. I agree with you, it's indisputable. I'm not sure if the cabin ratios are nearly as much of an issue as the elite to FC cabin inventory ratio, though.
On the matter of absolute domestic inventory, however, UA has both more absolute FC seats (it's a bigger carrier, of course), and more FC seats per domestically-configured a/c as well.
Yes, UA does have more planes with an 8-seat FC cabin (A-319, 55 currently in the fleet) vs. CO (735, 34 currently in the fleet).
It also has more planes with a 24-seat FC cabin (752 96 currently in the fleet) vs CO (753, 17 currently in the fleet).
And, of course, again, UA has those domestic widebodies, which CO does not have.
UA has an average of 18.7 FC seats per domestically-configured a/c, while CO has an averagr of 15.6 FC seats per domestically-configured a/c.
It's not a huge difference, although sometimes 3 seats is all it takes to get an upgrade.
And, of course, there is E+. That's a huge difference in inventory. Huge.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:51 am
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,072
They're limited in that you only get so many, but they're most certainly free, not to mention confirmable at time of booking.
In fact, they can be used to address some of the concerns you raised on this topic. Have a 319/320 transcon you're worried about? If you can burn a CR1 and confirm it at time of booking, might be worthwhile.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:53 am
#146
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Clinging to the edifices of a decadent past from the biggest city in America nobody really cares about.
Programs: (ಠ_ಠ)
Posts: 9,077
I don't think I'd include the PS fleets at their entire capacity, but I do think it's worth noting that they are upgradable, for free, for 1ks due to instruments.
Last edited by J.Edward; Nov 17, 2009 at 11:01 am
Nov 17, 2009, 10:55 am
#147
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
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Maybe. But your post was asserting that UA has more F seats, not that they have more F and pseudo-F/E+ seats. That was the point I was correcting.
Of course UA has more E+ seats. After all, they have E+. Believe it or not, that's not enough to get me to switch my loyalty. And I'm not particularly hub captive.
Of course UA has more E+ seats. After all, they have E+. Believe it or not, that's not enough to get me to switch my loyalty. And I'm not particularly hub captive.
Again, UA never has fewer FC seats than CO (A319 vs. 735), and often more than CO has (763 and 777US, of which there is no CO equivalent).
And while it is true that UA has a larger inventory of A-319's (55) than CO's 735's (34), on balance, UA has more FC seats per domestically-configured a/c than CO.
Nov 17, 2009, 10:57 am
#148
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SEA
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 355
I don't know what this means to me. I'll be platinum on this Friday's flight (before the DEQM) and with this milestone the need to think about loyalty to CO more than ever. I hate UA and have not flown them in years. Plus, being a SEA based passenger...AS goes to 90% of the places I want to fly. Plus, I don't have to connect in LA or SFO like I do with UA. I've made a choice to fly CO to everywhere except on west coast flights (which is shot in the foot with the AS relationship dead).
Nov 17, 2009, 11:04 am
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Programs: DL SM Plat, B6 TrueBlue, UA MP, AAdvantage
Posts: 10,008
You don't have to, in fact. Now as a CO elite you can gain virtually equal access to UA's larger FC cabins, as well as their E+, while your counterparts over at UA will be feeling they got the short end of the stick the next time they score a middle seat in CO's "premium" section.
Nov 17, 2009, 11:11 am
#150
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ORD
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Posts: 10,665
The issue here is not whether you (or anyone) switch loyalty.
You don't have to, in fact. Now as a CO elite you can gain virtually equal access to UA's larger FC cabins, as well as their E+, while your counterparts over at UA will be feeling they got the short end of the stick the next time they score a middle seat in CO's "premium" section.
You don't have to, in fact. Now as a CO elite you can gain virtually equal access to UA's larger FC cabins, as well as their E+, while your counterparts over at UA will be feeling they got the short end of the stick the next time they score a middle seat in CO's "premium" section.