Citi cards closed, TYP confiscated, reasons not disclosed.
May 27, 2013, 2:08 pm
#766
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: PHX
Posts: 4,787
May 27, 2013, 5:33 pm
#767
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ORD
Posts: 271
It sucks
Nothing in writing received yet. Some bogus reasons were cited on the phone including one related to multiple TY cards, totally ignore the fact that 1) different card types - Premier, Preferred and Professional. 2) The Origins of the Preferred started in 2006 and 2008 from 2 different cards that were converted, including one started out as an AMEX TY card that Citi discontinued. Even having AU on 2 TY cards was being used as an excuse for the dislike by Citi as to earn bonus points. I never know having an AU can earn bonus points from Citi, as that never happens to me! GC purchases at CVS was cited but the person said she would take into the consideration of how little I had purchased. Sadly I did not have phone recording facility on my end.
As late as on Friday around 2:30pm Sioux Falls time, I was told over the phone by the person at President's Office, that she "would not make a decision to whether she would unfreeze my TY account until Next Week." and she supposedly would then call me back on that decision.
Of course that has turned out to be a blatant lie.
As late as on Friday around 2:30pm Sioux Falls time, I was told over the phone by the person at President's Office, that she "would not make a decision to whether she would unfreeze my TY account until Next Week." and she supposedly would then call me back on that decision.
Of course that has turned out to be a blatant lie.
May 27, 2013, 5:37 pm
#768
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: Northwest, United
Posts: 3,257
I don't have any TYP cards, never have (and I'm certainly not planning to get one now). But I do have a few AA Citi cards (all 1x), and have been planning to include one or two more in my next AOR. I typically only hit the "manufacture" button pretty lightly on any card ($500-$1000 a month max, per card). Now, with the current ongoing witch hunt, I"m wondering if ANY Citi card is safe to use.
May 27, 2013, 5:41 pm
#769
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,944
I've been wondering about this, too.
I don't have any TYP cards, never have (and I'm certainly not planning to get one now). But I do have a few AA Citi cards (all 1x), and have been planning to include one or two more in my next AOR. I typically only hit the "manufacture" button pretty lightly on any card ($500-$1000 a month max, per card). Now, with the current ongoing witch hunt, I"m wondering if ANY Citi card is safe to use.
I don't have any TYP cards, never have (and I'm certainly not planning to get one now). But I do have a few AA Citi cards (all 1x), and have been planning to include one or two more in my next AOR. I typically only hit the "manufacture" button pretty lightly on any card ($500-$1000 a month max, per card). Now, with the current ongoing witch hunt, I"m wondering if ANY Citi card is safe to use.
Now on the other side, as MM says, it is only x1, but if there is indeed a witch hunt against this type of spend, I would hold off for now. Also, as it is only x1, missing the opportunity isn't so bad.
May 27, 2013, 5:44 pm
#770
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,184
I've been wondering about this, too.
I don't have any TYP cards, never have (and I'm certainly not planning to get one now). But I do have a few AA Citi cards (all 1x), and have been planning to include one or two more in my next AOR. I typically only hit the "manufacture" button pretty lightly on any card ($500-$1000 a month max, per card). Now, with the current ongoing witch hunt, I"m wondering if ANY Citi card is safe to use.
I don't have any TYP cards, never have (and I'm certainly not planning to get one now). But I do have a few AA Citi cards (all 1x), and have been planning to include one or two more in my next AOR. I typically only hit the "manufacture" button pretty lightly on any card ($500-$1000 a month max, per card). Now, with the current ongoing witch hunt, I"m wondering if ANY Citi card is safe to use.
May 27, 2013, 5:53 pm
#772
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Khyber Pakhtunkhwa
Posts: 1,929
May 27, 2013, 6:33 pm
#773
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,767
Once you are ready for it to be submitted then let the community to know where to sign.
By the way, Congrats for passing the CA Bar with flying color! Lots of hard work for sure (reminding me my own CPA exam years back).
And thank you for your volunteering on the petition.
May 27, 2013, 6:34 pm
#774
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 502
Some of you keep saying this to make yourselves feel better but if you are so proud of following the TCs, why do you have such a hard time accepting the fact that Citi is also following the SAME exact TCs that you are following? Specifically, closing your account for whatever reason the bank feels is appropriate. You seem to forget it is a two way street way up there on your soap box.
May 27, 2013, 6:45 pm
#775
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CVG
Programs: AAdvantage, Delta Skymiles, CapOne Venture, Citi ThankYou
Posts: 486
Resources
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Consumer Dispute Resolution
Citi ThankYou Preferred Agreement
Citi ThankYou Rewards Terms & Conditions
Equal Credit Opportunity Act
ECOA Regulation B
§ 202.2 Definitions.
For the purposes of this regulation, unless the context indicates otherwise, the following definitions apply.
...
(c) Adverse action--(1) The term means:
...
(ii) A termination of an account or an unfavorable change in the terms of an account that does not affect all or substantially all of a class of the creditor's accounts; or
§ 202.9 Notifications.
(a) Notification of action taken, ECOA notice, and statement of specific reasons-- (1) When notification is required. A creditor shall notify an applicant of action taken within:
...
(iii) 30 days after taking adverse action on an existing account; or
...
(2) Content of notification when adverse action is taken. A notification given to an applicant when adverse action is taken shall be in writing and shall contain a statement of the action taken; the name and address of the creditor; a statement of the provisions of § 701(a) of the Act; the name and address of the federal agency that administers compliance with respect to the creditor; and either:
(i) A statement of specific reasons for the action taken; or
(ii) A disclosure of the applicant's right to a statement of specific reasons within 30 days, if the statement is requested within 60 days of the creditor's notification. The disclosure shall include the name, address, and telephone number of the person or office from which the statement of reasons can be obtained. If the creditor chooses to provide the reasons orally, the creditor shall also disclose the applicant's right to have them confirmed in writing within 30 days of receiving the applicant's written request for confirmation.
......................
(b) Form of ECOA notice and statement of specific reasons--(1) ECOA notice. To satisfy the disclosure requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section regarding section 701(a) of the Act, the creditor shall provide a notice that is substantially similar to the following:
The federal Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits creditors from discriminating against credit applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age (provided the applicant has the capacity to enter into a binding contract); because all or part of the applicant's income derives from any public assistance program; or because the applicant has in good faith exercised any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act. The federal agency that administers compliance with this law concerning this creditor is [name and address as specified by the appropriate agency listed in appendix A of this regulation].
(2) Statement of specific reasons. The statement of reasons for adverse action required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section must be specific and indicate the principal reason(s) for the adverse action. Statements that the adverse action was based on the creditor's internal standards or policies or that the applicant, joint applicant, or similar party failed to achieve the qualifying score on the creditor's credit scoring system are insufficient.
.........
§ 202.16 Enforcement, penalties and liabilities.
...
(b) Penalties and liabilities--(1) Sections 702(g) and 706(a) and (b) of the Act provide that any creditor that fails to comply with a requirement imposed by the Act or this regulation is subject to civil liability for actual and punitive damages in individual or class actions. Pursuant to sections 702(g) and 704(b), (c), and (d) of the Act, violations of the Act or this regulation also constitute violations of other federal laws. Liability for punitive damages can apply only to nongovernmental entities and is limited to $10,000 in individual actions and the lesser of $500,000 or 1 percent of the creditor's net worth in class actions. Sections 706(c) provides for equitable and declaratory relief and section 706(d) authorizes the awarding of costs and reasonable attorney's fees to an aggrieved applicant in a successful action.
Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Consumer Dispute Resolution
Citi ThankYou Preferred Agreement
Citi ThankYou Rewards Terms & Conditions
Equal Credit Opportunity Act
ECOA Regulation B
§ 202.2 Definitions.
For the purposes of this regulation, unless the context indicates otherwise, the following definitions apply.
...
(c) Adverse action--(1) The term means:
...
(ii) A termination of an account or an unfavorable change in the terms of an account that does not affect all or substantially all of a class of the creditor's accounts; or
§ 202.9 Notifications.
(a) Notification of action taken, ECOA notice, and statement of specific reasons-- (1) When notification is required. A creditor shall notify an applicant of action taken within:
...
(iii) 30 days after taking adverse action on an existing account; or
...
(2) Content of notification when adverse action is taken. A notification given to an applicant when adverse action is taken shall be in writing and shall contain a statement of the action taken; the name and address of the creditor; a statement of the provisions of § 701(a) of the Act; the name and address of the federal agency that administers compliance with respect to the creditor; and either:
(i) A statement of specific reasons for the action taken; or
(ii) A disclosure of the applicant's right to a statement of specific reasons within 30 days, if the statement is requested within 60 days of the creditor's notification. The disclosure shall include the name, address, and telephone number of the person or office from which the statement of reasons can be obtained. If the creditor chooses to provide the reasons orally, the creditor shall also disclose the applicant's right to have them confirmed in writing within 30 days of receiving the applicant's written request for confirmation.
......................
(b) Form of ECOA notice and statement of specific reasons--(1) ECOA notice. To satisfy the disclosure requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section regarding section 701(a) of the Act, the creditor shall provide a notice that is substantially similar to the following:
The federal Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits creditors from discriminating against credit applicants on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age (provided the applicant has the capacity to enter into a binding contract); because all or part of the applicant's income derives from any public assistance program; or because the applicant has in good faith exercised any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act. The federal agency that administers compliance with this law concerning this creditor is [name and address as specified by the appropriate agency listed in appendix A of this regulation].
(2) Statement of specific reasons. The statement of reasons for adverse action required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section must be specific and indicate the principal reason(s) for the adverse action. Statements that the adverse action was based on the creditor's internal standards or policies or that the applicant, joint applicant, or similar party failed to achieve the qualifying score on the creditor's credit scoring system are insufficient.
.........
§ 202.16 Enforcement, penalties and liabilities.
...
(b) Penalties and liabilities--(1) Sections 702(g) and 706(a) and (b) of the Act provide that any creditor that fails to comply with a requirement imposed by the Act or this regulation is subject to civil liability for actual and punitive damages in individual or class actions. Pursuant to sections 702(g) and 704(b), (c), and (d) of the Act, violations of the Act or this regulation also constitute violations of other federal laws. Liability for punitive damages can apply only to nongovernmental entities and is limited to $10,000 in individual actions and the lesser of $500,000 or 1 percent of the creditor's net worth in class actions. Sections 706(c) provides for equitable and declaratory relief and section 706(d) authorizes the awarding of costs and reasonable attorney's fees to an aggrieved applicant in a successful action.
May 27, 2013, 6:58 pm
#776
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 170
If you wish to elevate, you may write to Richard Cordray, Chief of Consumer Financial Protection giving all facts and data of your case for them to investigate and copy to CEO of Citi bank.
If the penalty from Citi is excessive compared to errors, let CFPB figure out.
If the penalty from Citi is excessive compared to errors, let CFPB figure out.
May 27, 2013, 7:01 pm
#777
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 784
And what, your soap box is higher than his? This attitude is becoming more prevalent as everyone has their own line of what they perceive is okay. We have the it's probably okay to maybe buy one VR to hit minimum spend, but two is pushing it and thus, the one that bought two (or perhaps a few more than two, lol) is a bad, bad, man. It's the Im fine, but those "others" aren't.
C'mon, this isn't the playground, no need for spite or judgment. Rather, if you haven't bought a VR or GC, then this thread should have no interest for you and you obviously would not have anything to contribute that would be constructive.
C'mon, this isn't the playground, no need for spite or judgment. Rather, if you haven't bought a VR or GC, then this thread should have no interest for you and you obviously would not have anything to contribute that would be constructive.
May 27, 2013, 7:09 pm
#778
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: AL
Programs: All of the Above
Posts: 1,374
Bottom line is that unless the T&C's say that you cannot purchase VR's, then there's nothing wrong with purchasing them, whether it's 1 or 100. Certain stores sell them, and you are allowed by the Citi T&C to buy things from that store (assuming they accept V and MC), therefore anything in that store you are allowed to buy, and as many as you want.
Let's say I spend $20K/month in my business expenses. I can choose to purchase $20K worth of VR's if I want, or $20K of GC's, to pay my vendors, or just pay them directly. That's most certainly allowable. We're all talking about this subject now because of the swift action Citi has taken, which most of us feel is within Citi's rights, but it is not in their rights to confiscate our TYP balances.
Let's say I spend $20K/month in my business expenses. I can choose to purchase $20K worth of VR's if I want, or $20K of GC's, to pay my vendors, or just pay them directly. That's most certainly allowable. We're all talking about this subject now because of the swift action Citi has taken, which most of us feel is within Citi's rights, but it is not in their rights to confiscate our TYP balances.
May 27, 2013, 7:17 pm
#779
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,944
I think that swintec's point was that Citi's action is also within the T&Cs, following the chain:
a) We can close a card for any reason
b) Once the card is closed (not important)
c) Once all sponsor accounts are closed, the TY account may be closed
d) Once the TY account is closed, all unredeemed points will be lost
(and elsewhere the statement that TY points have no value outside the program).
So, we can't justify our claims by saying we follow T&Cs without noting that so do Citi.
But that ignores whether these actions are really enforceable when other consumer protections may apply. I can sign T&Cs saying you can kill my first-born son if I am 30 days late, but if the bank acted on that.....
a) We can close a card for any reason
b) Once the card is closed (not important)
c) Once all sponsor accounts are closed, the TY account may be closed
d) Once the TY account is closed, all unredeemed points will be lost
(and elsewhere the statement that TY points have no value outside the program).
So, we can't justify our claims by saying we follow T&Cs without noting that so do Citi.
But that ignores whether these actions are really enforceable when other consumer protections may apply. I can sign T&Cs saying you can kill my first-born son if I am 30 days late, but if the bank acted on that.....
May 27, 2013, 7:19 pm
#780
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 271
http://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumer/fileacomplaint.htm
The more complaints they receive the more likely that regulators will take action.