YuropFlyer

Just back from (two) transfers in PEK

Queues for immigration (and TWOV) were close to non-existing at 0.30am, and there isn't much to arrive after that, so a 1am arrival should, despite only a few counters being staffed, mean very quick admission (5min walk to TWOV counter, 10min TWOV wait, 10min queue for immigration, 10min ride to landside. With a bit of luck, I can see 20-25min being possible (if you're a fast walker, and zero queues, and OLCI done) from "inside terminal" to "reaching terminal 2 shuttle bus"

Good thing for you, the transfer between T3 and T2/T1 now is every 15min (at worst) even during night:

Free Terminal Shuttle-TRAFFIC-BCIA

So that means you'd only have to fall back option "bribe a taxi driver to drive over to T2 with 50 RMB" in case your arrival flight is really late.

If you've a on time arrival, even with a bit of queues, and are landside no later than 2am, you'll be in T2 before 2.30am.

Which means still legal for "regular" checkin.

So.. as long as your incoming flight isn't really delayed heavily (above 30min), you'll make it.
And the good thing is, you'll MOST PROBABLY notice this while in Europe.

On time departure (or even up to 30min late departure in Kiev) will mean a on-time arrival (or just minutes late)

If your departure is delayed by 1hr or more in Kiev, you can always go to option B, and book a backup flight while still there on the ground.

On time/max 15min delay arrival = You'll make it 99% with OLCI done, 95% without
No more than 30min delay = You'll make it 95% with OLCI done, 50% without

More than 30min, and it becomes VERY critical to make it without OLCI done, more than 50min or so, and it becomes VERY critical even with OLCI done.

I'd still risk it if you've booked everything, having plan B ready (either yourself ready to book alternatives, or a friend being "on standby" to monitor the flight arrival or being ready if you message him.

TheAlbionJackal

Thank you, so much for the length of your reply.

Just one thing... I will be transferring from T2 to T3, not the other way around.

YuropFlyer

oops, sorry about that. I don't have recent experience arriving at T2 international at that time during the night. If it's the same, it will be better (T2 is smaller, and no train ride to add) - maybe it adds 5min for the bus (since it will have a quick stop at T1 on the way to T3) but overall T2 to T3 should be better than T3 to T2, if just a few minutes.

Anyway, if there are long queues, you can (and should!) resort to make yourself being noted, being on a tight connection, etc. - from my experience, they'll check, and if you're indeed tight, let in front.

TheAlbionJackal

Thank you again.

I will make a sign to inform them that we are on a tight schedule and hopefully my son's Mandarin might persuade them to help us!

I'm right in thinking that as long as we have printed our boarding passes out to a good standard, we can simply progress to Security and then Immigration, without stopping at the Cathay Dragon Desks?

Kind regards,

YuropFlyer

Printed out schedule and maybe (in both English as well as Chinese) a sign explaining your departure from T3 at 3.30am will definitely be a good idea to bring, even if you made OLCI already and are holding boarding passes (both to show to other passengers to let you queue jump as well as to show to staff to let you directly go in front, depending in queue length)

Unfortunately, in PEK, TWOV has been made more complicated. You'll first need to head for a special TWOV counter, where they'll check your schedule. If it's a no-brainer, like in your case, the check should be faster and smooth, but will still take a few minutes most probably.

After that, you can head to regular immigration.

So TWOV is (always) slower than if you're holding a regular Chinese visa, could be anything from a few minutes (no queue, boarding pass in hand, clear schedule) to up to 1.5hrs (my worst personal experience - luckily I'm back on a multiple entry now) at TWOV alone, but regular immigration lines were terrible that day too, so it "only" added approx 45min because in the end, after 6am more immigration staff arrived.

Anyway and spoken in general, not just your case, transfer between T2 and T3 (and vice versa) isn't fun, and if other options are available, I'd probably do them unless they're significantly more expensive.

If you're on a proper night-over (or several days stay) it doesn't matter, and TWOV, albeit now slightly slower in PEK, won't break any fun (and honestly is a great thing when comparing to rules in Schengen or the US) but for a quick transfer between Terminals, it's not something I'd fancy a non-seasoned traveller to do.

Transfer within T3 works out (relatively) smooth, last two transits I did this way were 40min resp. 55min from "doors open" to "crack open a beer in the lounge", which, while not great, is acceptable. But that only requires tons of walking, showing your passport for a quick immigration check (but no stamps), and getting a security check, but nothing more.

TheAlbionJackal

Once again, thank you.

I still have the option, of course, of obtaining a Chinese Visa, here in Hong Kong...

YuropFlyer

If you're living in HKG, an unlimited entry, long-term Chinese Visa might indeed make some sense (for other trips as well) - for TWOV purposes, it will "only" save a few minutes if there isn't a queue (but they might be the difference between make or break..)

889

As well, with a visa you won't have to worry about the mess you'll be in if your arriving flight is so late that your flight to HK has already departed, and you no longer hold a valid confirmed booking on an onward flight. Solvable, I suppose, but with so much less hassle if you can just head out with your visa, particularly at that hour when airline staff to help sort out the problem may be scarce.

That you've a child with you also suggests a conservative approach might be best.

EDIT:

Look at the recent ontime performance. Unless the situation changes, you're going to be out of luck. That flight's arrived Beijing after 3:30am on every one of the last five flights currently shown, 29 April to 3 May:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ps287

And when you check in at Kiev, perhaps the staff will know the flight will in fact be arriving after your onward flight and deny you boarding. One thing to be stuck in Beijing. Quite another Kiev.

TheAlbionJackal

I'm truly indebted to the level of detail on here.

Thank you 889.

I will make enquiries as to visas, although it has to be said that I have only arranged them for actual visits to China rather than stopovers, so am unsure as to how that may work.

When I looked on www.flightaware.com for the punctuality of PS287 the timings were different to the ones posted! The only similarity is that on www.flightaware.com on certain dates there was no data. These dates coincided with the dates posted.

I wonder which is more credible?

TheAlbionJackal

flightaware.com/live/flight/AUI287/history/20180503/0725Z/UKBB/ZBAA

889

There are clearly some problems with the flight aware data, sometimes showing a flight time of just 30m!

Anyway, according to the Beijing Airport site, the flight arrived today at 2:14am, 1h04m late.

Beijing Capital International Airport - BCIA

Generally, when you apply for a Chinese visa in a case like this you apply for a normal tourist visa, not a transit visa. Cost is the same. If you're American you should be able to get a 10-year multiple-entry visa in Hong Kong, though it will be expensive. If you're British, it will probably be a normal 30-day visa, but still expensive. Other nationalities vary.

TheAlbionJackal

I went to an Agency (CTS) today and asked about a Visa. Sadly, without a hotel booking which I won't have, I cannot avail myself of their services to get a "normal" 14 day or 30 day Visa.

Having gone through the absolute nightmare of applying for Visas in person, in the past, I really don't fancy it. My experience there still rivals a Lumbar puncture at the age of 11 and my football team losing twice, in the space of 4 days to their rivals, as being the worst experiences of my life!

The only glimmer of hope is that the place where applications have to be made, has changed, which could indicate that the process may be a bit more pleasant.

Still haven't got to the bottom of the Flightaware vs FlightRadar24 debate. Clearly, FlightAware openly admit to their being a problem with certain arrival times by placing a "?" next to certain flights, hence the 0H 30M times.

I have to say however, that on closer inspection the FlightRadar24 data looks seriously flawed in that they make out that the flight duration is consistently near to 12 hours... for what is quoted as a 9 hour flight and mysteriously, they don't have any tracking data once the flight flys over the Caspian Sea!

889

It's easy to make a free booking you can cancel on a site like booking.com. Just make sure you cancel before the deadline.

But do you need a visa? Or had you better bite the bullet and change that onward flight from Beijing instead?

Forget flight aware and fight radar for the moment. Yesterday the flight arrived 2:14am according to the airport site. Today it was 1:35am.

Face reality: your chance of making that 3:30am flight is very poor.

TheAlbionJackal

Yes. You're absolutely right.

I will rebook for the 07:25 flight.

Many thanks.

TheAlbionJackal

Is it possible to have the 2 flight reservations?

The amount to rebook is nearly as much to make a separate, second booking for the later flight.

I would hate to be able to make the first flight at 03:30 but have to wait until 07:25.