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Chinese Visa Issue?

Chinese Visa Issue?

Old Jan 3, 19, 2:53 pm
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Chinese Visa Issue?

I have a 10 year Chinese visa - and just came across a completely incompetent European border guard who put an EU stamp on my Chinese visa (?!??!?!) - I'm incredibly mad. Is my visa still valid? you can still read all the information from the visa - but there is an EU stamp smack dab on top of the numbers at the bottom (you can still read all the visa numbers)

Thanks
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Old Jan 9, 19, 8:30 pm
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That's a tough one. My Chinese visa has red ink that's smeared all over it due to transfer from stamps on the opposing page. Never had a problem with that. I think if the machine readable zone and the info is readable it should be okay. That's just my case.
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Old Jan 9, 19, 9:28 pm
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As said, it's marking over the machine readable zone that's a big concern.

I'd probably try it nonetheless if crossing by land from Hong Kong, say. But flying in your first problem will be the check-in clerk, and experience suggests check-in clerks can be fussier than immigration agents. More money at risk on losing your ticket flying in, too.
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Old Jan 9, 19, 10:43 pm
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Originally Posted by Tedgrrrr View Post
I have a 10 year Chinese visa - and just came across a completely incompetent European border guard who put an EU stamp on my Chinese visa (?!??!?!) - I'm incredibly mad. Is my visa still valid? you can still read all the information from the visa - but there is an EU stamp smack dab on top of the numbers at the bottom (you can still read all the visa numbers)

Thanks
Can you scrub off (most of) the stamp ink? Maybe try a small portion of the stamp first.
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Old Jan 9, 19, 10:47 pm
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I'd rather have a clear EU stamp than a blurry unreadable something that looks like I'm trying to hide something.
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Old Jan 9, 19, 11:22 pm
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Originally Posted by 889 View Post
I'd rather have a clear EU stamp than a blurry unreadable something that looks like I'm trying to hide something.
Hence, my suggestion to try a tiny area first. A lot of visa stickers are on the glossy side (e.g. my current RP feels almost like plastic to the touch), so it could work.
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Old Jan 9, 19, 11:33 pm
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EDIT: In lieu of someone getting in trouble, I recommend just get a new visa.

That said I have moved visas around my passport, never had a problem. Oops I'm a law breaker. I speed too.

Last edited by alphaod; Jan 14, 19 at 3:00 pm
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Old Jan 10, 19, 2:07 am
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Sorry to be blunt guys, but altering a stamp in your passport, even one placed there by an official in error, is plain dumb. And a crime under 18 USC Sec. 1543.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 4:10 am
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Originally Posted by 889 View Post
Sorry to be blunt guys, but altering a stamp in your passport, even one placed there by an official in error, is plain dumb. And a crime under 18 USC Sec. 1543.
No scienter..no crime.
​https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1543​​​​​​
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Old Jan 11, 19, 4:33 am
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Time to head back to law school.

"Whoever falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, mutilates, or alters any passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, with intent that the same may be used . . . " 18 USC Sec. 1543.

Absence of required scienter would come into play if the passport were altered or mutilated by accident, dropped in the toilet say, since the statute doesn't make negligent alteration or mutilation of a passport a crime. Here, we're talking about the stamp being intentionally erased in order that the passport may be used, perhaps with less difficulty. That's the element of the crime.
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Last edited by 889; Jan 11, 19 at 4:38 am
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Old Jan 11, 19, 5:26 am
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This is a simple risk tolerance issue. The question is not whether OP will be permitted to cross the Chinese border, but rather whether he will be permitted to board a flight to China. Thus, what are the consequences to OP if he is not permitted to travel.

For me this is an easy call. I would replace the visa, despite all the hassles. But, others might risk it.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by 889 View Post
Time to head back to law school.

"Whoever falsely makes, forges, counterfeits, mutilates, or alters any passport or instrument purporting to be a passport, with intent that the same may be used . . . " 18 USC Sec. 1543.

Absence of required scienter would come into play if the passport were altered or mutilated by accident, dropped in the toilet say, since the statute doesn't make negligent alteration or mutilation of a passport a crime. Here, we're talking about the stamp being intentionally erased in order that the passport may be used, perhaps with less difficulty. That's the element of the crime.
Hannibal v. Winchell. 54 Mo. 177: Haynes v. State, 15 Ohio St. 455; Davis v. Campbell, 93 Iowa, 524, 61 N. W. 1053; Sessions v. State, 115 Ga. 18, 41 S. E. 259
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Old Jan 11, 19, 9:07 pm
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Like I said, back to law school for you.

An empty string of cites fools nobody.
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Old Jan 11, 19, 11:48 pm
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I collect works on paper. I would never recommend someone try a do it your self attempt — there is a reason that the paper conservator I use studied organic chemistry and has an in-depth knowledge of media especially inks and the paper support and has bottles of various chemical solvents to undo previous work.

And when looking at a work I can see what alterations have been attempted but I bring in the expert to discuss what can be done and can any previous “enhancements” be removed without causing any further damage. And then I leave it to the expert.

The risk of being turned away at a border or at an airline is high as it is often at the discretion of the person reviewing the visa, and that is a personal choice based on comfort of risks.

Personally I would get another visa but that is up to the OP.


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Old Jan 12, 19, 12:05 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
Hannibal v. Winchell. 54 Mo. 177: Haynes v. State, 15 Ohio St. 455; Davis v. Campbell, 93 Iowa, 524, 61 N. W. 1053; Sessions v. State, 115 Ga. 18, 41 S. E. 259
I am not certain how copying cases from a legal dictionary which cites cases that defined the term “alter” really helps the OP. Hannibal v Winchell discusses eminent domain and what the definition of to alter a wharf which has little bearing on a visa aside from defining the word alter in a legal context

The main questions are whether the country that issued the visa will accept it after it has been stamped and will the OP have problems from airline carriers if that is the method of transportation.
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