I'm updating this thread because I've splitting my time between the two -- almost evenly-- for the past 10 weeks.

From an expat perspective:

-BJ is simply more relaxing
*my Shuangjing neighborhood is extremely cool
-Shanghai's western food options are far better
-in BJ, I work 10 hours/day v. 16 in SH
-if it were possible to detach our office girls from qq, that "16" would drop to "12"
-there is much more money in BJ, but takes a fair amount of patience (and money) in order to tap the well
-by contrast, the money in SH is fast and loose

In closing, for tourists, BJ wins by a country mile. For expats, SH is probably better.

I agree that for tourists, Beijing just has much more to see and do. However, for expats, it isn't as clear cut. For expats with (nonworking) trailing spouses in particular, Beijing's expat community is generally considered more accessible and welcoming to get plugged into than Shanghai's. That's important for support system and social survival needs. An informal "straw poll" done by me a couple of years ago on this issue (n of about 20), of expats who had lived in both cities for at least 3 years in each place, had about 80% preferring Beijing. The single men nearly all preferred Shanghai, however.

I decided to stay in SH for the weekend because my best friend arrived Friday afternoon. Sadly, I hit the wall at 7p (~2 hours/night sleep) Sat and, therefore, missed the Saturday night scene... working in SH is hard, guys (if I had a spouse, she'd see for a mere 4 hours/night).

Beijing life is also fast, but there's a much stronger focus on dinners/KTV up there (i.e. work that isn't really work).

I miss Beijing (a lot), but I'm also at peace with Shanghai.

BJ has 55 golf courses, & SH only 22... Whereas Hainan has 23 !, & maybe the best courses in the winter, But i have not played the Yunan Kumming golf ones yet.

So, for golf tourists, BJ is more than double SH !....

Quality is more important than quantity, and I've yet to discover a single golf course in BJ that I would describe as interesting. For $18 in Portland, I can play on a course that's better than $200 fetches in Beijing. While I admit this kind of like the classic "hair cut" example (hair cuts are cheap in China, but this matters not to people outside of China), I'm not so in love with golf that I need to play every weekend. While we're on the subject, I might as well plug my golf enthusiast friend from Shuangjing here: Mick Quaid. Mick tells me that good golf does exist in Beijing, though at a high price. I have yet to see evidence of such, personally.

Heck, yes!
Shanghai's expat community has adapted itself to the locals, so to say...

I can't believe this thread is still going on, we all know Shanghai is better than Beijing.

I'm still conflicted, fox. Since you and I live 1.5 blocks apart from each other in SH, it shouldn't be hard to convince you that Jing'an is miserable in the summer... and the winter. By contrast, Shuangjing (in Beijing) is relatively pleasant year round. Simply put, it's a wonderful community, to the extent that most of us don't venture north of Chang'an Jie unless there's money to be made (or an opportunity to swim, in my case). While I would cry for joy if there was a Cantina Agave in Shuangjing, I realize that life isn't perfect.

I'm hoping to move to Kunming within the next six months. I've never been, but I hear they have clean air, mild temperatures, and passable western food out there. Furthermore, their airport is surprisingly well connected.

Ha, Kunming, the city of eternal spring. I loved it, and if you're going by weather I think you've got Shanghai and Beijing beat. Weather wise, I'm with you that BJ beats SH.

I love Jing-An district, was a wonderful place to live.

I find that the best part of SH is it's convenience. There's everything I could ever want in the city, and the metro and cab situation makes everything very accessible.

My big problem is with the expat community, as I'm basically stuck between the two groups. I'll say one group is the businessmen, who are making real money and the other is the English teacher/studying Chinese crowd. I'm 24, but I work with all the businessmen, so I'm stuck in the middle. Not too many 40 year olds want to take me to dinner, but plenty of English teachers do. The only problem is that I have nothing in common with them, and I'd much prefer to be more connected to the older crowd. This means I'm spending a lot more time with my Chinese friends than most of my co-workers.

My general observation of the expat crowds in BJ and SH are that they aren't 100% serious about the long-haul in China, and are there for the expat salaries and wonderful housing allowances. Going to the expat bars in Tianjin is quiet an experience - you get a lot more of the 50 year old guy married to Chinese girl crowd, while in SH generally it's impossible to have a very serious relationship with a girl without buying her a house. I have to spend a lot of my time explaining the rules of inheritance from western cultures to my gf's parents, and how I don't see the point of spending 5 million Rmb on an apartment that looks like something out of Soviet Russia. Thus, you have many expats fooling around, and definitely giving the younger expats a bad reputation.

I don't know why anyone would even consider SH a tourist city - Xintiandi is fake. The Bund is nice to look at, and so is Yuyuan, but I think there's much more to see in most of the major historical cities. After all, SH is a relative young city.

I think they must plan these massive trips and then realize how massive SH is, thus ending up spending the afternoon in shopping malls and Zara.

[QUOTE=benzemalyonnais;17005828] I don't see the point of spending 5 million Rmb on an apartment that looks like something out of Soviet Russia. QUOTE]

That 5 million RMB "dump" was probably 1 million five years ago.
Could be 10 in another 2-3 years. But still a "dump".

BJ probably has a larger number of expats that are in the "long term" category than SH, probably due to the differing focus of business in each city. Shanghai and surrounding region has a larger corporate presence in terms of numbers of managers, with focus on financial and operations. Expats often assigned for 4 year hitches, with the intent (employee and employer) of leaving China afterward--or jumping to a different company in China. The skill set needed is more nuts-and-bolts business stuff. Beijing is where most major companies have their government relations and advocacy offices, which tend to be staffed by expats with a lot of gray hair, lots of China experience, and established relationships with Chinese government officials in the relevant Ministries. Ditto for specialty consultants that do this sort of GR/PR work and represent major companies. In less than a minute, I could probably make a list of 2-3 dozen expats in Beijing I know personally/socially, who have been in China for minimum of 10 years, and some as long as 20. Some of these have been running their own businesses here. These are nearly all middle-aged+ foreigners.

I can see your dilemma on being in one group age-wise, but another one professionally and interest-wise. I can only suggest that if you want to "access" an older expat crowd on a social, non-business basis, that you find in SH some sort of social group, club, church, volunteer group etc that you have an interest in. My experience with this in BJ is that when you come together with common interests, the age differences between members becomes irrelevant. I say this to you as a middle-aged person who has been in groups with multiple age brackets...from which the dinner invites and social stuff evolves. This goes back to what I said in a post above- about getting "plugged into" the expat network-it seems that common expat wisdom is that it's easier to find groups and join in in BJ than SH.

As for your girlfriend and family, what can I say? Your GF is taking the very standard Chinese female business-like approach and looking at her companion as a general representative for current and future material possibilities. They do this with Chinese males also. Only you know whether there is also some true love in there somewhere. One tip: if you propose to buy a house for the two of you, tell her you intend to keep it in your name only. Her reaction will give you some indication as to where you stand in her priorities.

I feel compelled to admit that I now teach English on the side (one student; client's kid; nobody else was up for the task) and that it's a pretty sweet gig. IMO, the people who do it full time receive way too much criticism.

[QUOTE=jiejie;17006273] One tip: if you propose to buy a house for the two of you, tell her you intend to keep it in your name only. QUOTE]

Best to consult a lawyer. Chinese laws are changing rapidly.

In a bid to temper the rising expectations of Chinese women, China's Supreme Court has now ruled that from now on, the person who buys the family home, or the parents who advance them the money, will get to keep it after divorce.

[QUOTE=anacapamalibu;17006431]Lawyers can help protect his interest. But Benze. has a girlfriend, which gives her no legal standing on this. A house bought by him and in his name doesn't confer rights on a non-wife. He didn't mention getting married, so I didn't go there.... If the Chinese Supreme Court ruling is fairly applied to (married) foreigner-Chinese situations, it should actually help out foreign spouses (usually men) who use their funds to buy the home but then get screwed out of it by--or at a minimum, a miserable battle with--the Chinese spouse (usually women). I've heard of a fair few cases of this over the past several years.