Jamoldo

Yeah. Well not extended though. As a part of an overpriced study abroad experiance a few years back, they were hired and took us around. The guides were knowledgeable, flexible and spoke English wel (some were western educated).

Now for work, when we visit certain parts of the country (ie. when one of the investment funds is taking us around) Wild China handles their logistics and quite well I have to say. However, the warning is that Wild China is by no means cheap and I would not engage them for touring around Beijing or something like that where one can get lots of information and advice on the internet and on this board unless you are taking around a very big client, or something like that and have tons of money to blow and want piece of mind (ie. staying in Ritzes, hiring a Benz everywhere and you not worrying about anything). However, their multi-city tours might be interesting...

Furthermore, some of their more exotic tours look very interesting but once again, pretty darned expensive.

In short, my experience with them has been good, but I will leave it to someone far more informed to hopefully provide a more comprehensive view.

Edited to add: I think joining a tour group going to Beijing is a fantastic idea, if (and I think Moondog has said this a number of times), one is willing to milk the airfare and the effectively free hotel room, but then ventuer out on their own, from information gleaned here or from other parts of the web. We're more than happy to help!

moondog

For the routes that are on my current radar (CAN-SHA, SHA-PEK, PEK-CAN, SHA-XIY, SHA-SZX), I haven't found any love inside the 3-day mark. I'm posting this warning because I've always sworn by the 3-day rule in the past. At this moment in time (this stuff changes frequently), 5-10 days out seems to work best.

anacapamalibu

Should be about 14 days out for the best fare.
The walk up and buy a ticket at a discount days ..over.

Jamoldo

Thanks for the warning guys. Parents and sister are coming in at the end of the month and was going to do the usual < 3 days tactic at a local place. Will bookfares this weekend.

omegadeal

What about private tours? I typically don't do tours, but not speaking any chineese, or having time to research my trip, I am thinking about hiring a private tour guide for my wife and I. It looks like many of these are around $120US per day which seems quite reasonable to me. Does anyone have any recommendations?

richarddd

A few years ago a colleague in Beijing booked us a tour through Grayline. It essentially consisted of a series of drivers and English speaking guides in the cities we chose. They offered flights, hotels, meals and attractions (e.g., a river cruise or two). We were able to book hotels cheaper, but they were a good deal on flights within China. Most meals seemed commercial tourist. Price seemed reasonable and there was no shopping (we insisted on this before booking). Some of the guides were very knowledgeable, but most didn't do a whole lot.

We went to Beijing, Xian, Hangzhou, Suchow, Guilin, the Yellow Mountains and Shanghai.

If we went again, we'd likely just go on our own in major cities and hire drivers by the day in other locations. From what I've heard, most hotels can do this on short notice.

moondog

As much as I detest tours of all types, I posted a thread last night in search of guides in Guangzhou because I really don't want to play that role myself. IMO, $50 should be enough to get the job done pretty much anywhere in China. If you stop by the local Starbucks, you will surely find many takers at that rate.

While you might be inclined to conclude that CITS certified guides have a stronger grasp on Chinese history than the Starbucks crowd, you'd be wrong.

Study the history on your own and focus on finding a travel companion that speaks English.

jiejie

I know these people fairly well including some of their senior managers, though I haven't had the cash and time factors coincide to be able to use them directly. Wild China was started by and still managed by foreign and Chinese (educated abroad and used to western expectations). It is a completely different animal than the China Focus, Ritz, Spree etc. so don't lump in same category. It is independent of the CITS-originated and CITS-related web of retail and wholesale shysters. WC makes its own on-the ground arrangements and has its own people and local associates actually providing the services.

Wild China is more of a specialty operation that doesn't do mass-market tours. I wouldn't even put them in the same niche as an Abercrombie & Kent. Though they do have some standardized offerings set up, that's not their real love nor bread and butter. It should be considered an expensive, high-end provider that deals primarily with customized individual and small group arrangements, and also a lot of custom corporate/organizational travel. For reasons of high cost (rather than quality), WC might not be the most logical choice for a standard on-the-beaten-path city tour that you can do on your own, but if I was looking for something exotic that required some logistical or guiding support--like trekking the Altai in Xinjiang, or white water rafting in Yunnan, or in-depth professional exploration of the minority peoples of Guizhou--I'd definitely be considering WC.

free2draw

We did a 10-day tour with Ritz Tours and were very pleased with their itinerary, service and price.

I believe Ritz Tours has offices in both NYC and SFO

Peter_N-H

I'm curious. Did you read the description of what goes on behind the scenes of these tours, discussed in detail in Arizonaroadwarrior's post and subsequent commentary?

Does this mean you're happy to have been practiced upon in the various ways described and that others should be cheated in the same way?

Or does it mean that you don't actually believe that the accounts of assorted cheating of tourists that have been given are true?

If the latter, could you tell us on what evidence? Or is it just, as is commonly the case, you are unwilling to accept after the event that you may have been the hapless victim of assorted scams?

Assuming instead that you haven't read the earlier postings mentioned, if you now go back and read them do you still feel you want to recommend the company quite so wholeheartedly? (And if so, please answer the questions above.)

tom911

That's good to hear.

I'm curious, too. Have you done a tour with Ritz Tours?

Peter_N-H

Setting aside that you've already received a detailed answer to the nature of the research into such companies (or have you not been reading the posts?)

The problems to come are well-flagged: Ritz's own website admits that ground handlers look after its tours, that there are unavoidable shopping stops, and although (like China Focus) rephrased, still pushes for completely rip-off tips.

You continue to support Ritz Tours, apparently, so can we assume that you deny the truth of the description provided by Arizonaroadwarrior, as well as the other research mentioned to you (or, indeed, what's on Ritz' website)? It's not as if there's anything fresh set out here that hasn't been reported before, sometimes admitted to in the Chinese press.

So if you're calling Arizonaroadwarrior a liar, can we hear on what grounds?

Or do you feel the organised attempts to mislead visitors and overcharge them are acceptable in some way? This would seem counter to most people's ideas of honest or reasonable behaviour, so perhaps you could explain why?

Or is it simply, as is so often the case, that having taken the tour you are in denial about having being conned in some way or other?

I have every sympathy for that position as I know hearing after the event that things are not what they same leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, but that practices described to you (and others) are commonplace to organised travel in China, and particularly to the (apparently but not always in reality) cheaper operators.

But we have those still to travel to consider here, who need to know what they would be getting themselves into, and whose needs must take precedence. It may be possible to extract value from these tours by avoiding the cons (although sitting out multiple shopping stops, for instance, nor staring down the pressure for tips doesn't have much appeal) but that certainly won't happen if those cons are not revealed in advance.

tom911

I'd rather rely on someone who has actually done a tour for a recommendation versus a researcher. I don't see in your post that you have booked a tour with Ritz, either, much like you didn't book one with China Focus.

Peter_N-H

Setting aside that this position is contrary to all everyday experience, and if broadly applied must leave us in ignorance of what goes on most of the time anywhere or ever happened (in fact it's an utterly ridiculous position), you are yourself (who has never taken a tour in China) relying on the report of some people who obviously travelled unaware of what happened to them, probably their first and only time in the country (and therefore prime marks), and with no knowledge of the language. In your universe, apparently, no one ever gets conned without knowing it? People never come back from Bangkok talking about the gems they purchased for amazing prices, etc? Or from Beijing's Hong Qiao market with pearls with 10% of what they paid, but convinced otherwise? Unfortunately people are fooled all the time when they travel, and most of us know this perfectly well, which is why we come to forums like this, and buy guide books.

Against this you have someone who has spent many years in China, has taken more tours at all levels than he can remember (and so *is* reporting from personal experience), who speaks Mandarin, who has interviewed tour guides (and had them as friends), and additionally questioned many tour companies about their policies (including Ritz), which anyway stands accused by what it says itself on its website as do China Focus and others. (It admits to using the same old ground handlers--so you're going to have trouble claiming--from no personal experience yourself--that it is somehow a special case. It admits to shopping stops. It admits to tipping pressure.)

This is not some hobby of mine, or some casual one-off trip, and my experience is direct and personal. This research forms the basis of practical advice in China guides in some of the most popular travel guide series (as a result of which, some of these companies are trying a little to disguise what they are doing, since readers are asking them the very questions that have been suggested in order to help intending travellers avoid scams and make wise choices).

Quite honestly, the truths of tourism in China have been widely reported, even the Chinese press has reported on some of the scams mentioned, you have a detailed account from someone who took a tour, and you have no leg to stand on. But as long as others read the reports above, all from personal experience, that's what matters. You are free to go and gain at least one personal experience in your own good time, see if you can spot the commonly-known scams, and report back.

You're obviously, on no grounds whatsoever except a curiously bruised pride on the part of your friends, calling me a liar rather than accept that your friends may not have had a tour of the kind described by Arizonaroadwarrior. Again, are you calling Arizonaroadwarrior a liar, too?

free2draw

Wow! I didn't realize this subject stirred up soo much emotion.

My experience with Ritz Tours were mine only. Everyone experience is different, and YMMV. I was happy with Ritz because I thought I got good value for my money. We paid $1400 for a 10-day tour included airfare to China and 2 domestic segments, stayed in 5-star hotel, ate good food (yum peking duck) and our tour guides were funny and spoke excellent English. We were a family of 6 and that was great for us because I couldn't have planned all that for our large group.

Of the 12 people in our group, everyone enjoyed the tour, we all had good memories from the trip, and to this day, I am still in contact with these people.

Sure, we were taken to "shopping". But we weren't forced to buy anything. Some of the places we went to was interesting. For example, we learned how silk was made at the silk factory. We didn't buy any overpriced jade nor we we told to buy them.

In the end, we got our money worth and thoroughly enjoyed our time in China and that's all it mattered.