Originally Posted by
tom911
I'd rather rely on someone who has actually done a tour for a recommendation versus a researcher. I don't see in your post that you have booked a tour with Ritz, either, much like you didn't book one with China Focus.
Setting aside that this position is contrary to all everyday experience, and if broadly applied must leave us in ignorance of what goes on most of the time anywhere or ever happened (in fact it's an utterly ridiculous position), you are yourself (who has never taken a tour in China) relying on the report of some people who obviously travelled unaware of what happened to them, probably their first and only time in the country (and therefore prime marks), and with no knowledge of the language. In your universe, apparently, no one ever gets conned without knowing it? People never come back from Bangkok talking about the gems they purchased for amazing prices, etc? Or from Beijing's Hong Qiao market with pearls with 10% of what they paid, but convinced otherwise? Unfortunately people are fooled all the time when they travel, and most of us know this perfectly well, which is why we come to forums like this, and buy guide books.
Against this you have someone who has spent many years in China, has taken more tours at all levels than he can remember (and so *is* reporting from personal experience), who speaks Mandarin, who has interviewed tour guides (and had them as friends), and additionally questioned many tour companies about their policies (including Ritz), which anyway stands accused by what it says itself on its website as do China Focus and others. (It admits to using the same old ground handlers--so you're going to have trouble claiming--from no personal experience yourself--that it is somehow a special case. It admits to shopping stops. It admits to tipping pressure.)
This is not some hobby of mine, or some casual one-off trip, and my experience is direct and personal. This research forms the basis of practical advice in China guides in some of the most popular travel guide series (as a result of which, some of these companies are trying a little to disguise what they are doing, since readers are asking them the very questions that have been suggested in order to help intending travellers avoid scams and make wise choices).
Quite honestly, the truths of tourism in China have been widely reported, even the Chinese press has reported on some of the scams mentioned, you have a detailed account from someone who took a tour, and you have no leg to stand on. But as long as others read the reports above, all from personal experience, that's what matters. You are free to go and gain at least one personal experience in your own good time, see if you can spot the commonly-known scams, and report back.
You're obviously, on no grounds whatsoever except a curiously bruised pride on the part of your friends, calling me a liar rather than accept that your friends may not have had a tour of the kind described by Arizonaroadwarrior. Again, are you calling Arizonaroadwarrior a liar, too?