Originally Posted by polonius (Post 11632279)

All I know is from direct experience. I make a point of routinely verbally harassing TSOs as much as possible every chance I get. But I am careful not to cross any lines, e.g., anything that could be considered assault or a threat. Sometimes they just deal with it and move on. Other times, they get uppity and threaten to call the cops, a threat to which I always respond to with, "yes, absolutely, please do." Then I never answer any of their questions and they eventually let me go.

The bottom line is that you do not have much in the way of rights at the checkpoint. Walking down the street, a cop wants to know this or that and with the exception of the need to identify yourself in some states, you can pretty much tell him to go ******* ****** with your ******* until he ********* and there isn't much he/she can do about it. At the checkpoint, all they need to do to ruin your day is just inform you that you're not going past the checkpoint, and there isn't a lot you can do about it. There is no need for probable cause for anything, because again, you either consent to the search or you don't fly. However, even though it has yet to be tested in court, I doubt they could justify keeping you off the plane just for annoying them. If they tried to bar me from boarding on the basis of my taunting them and their pathetic rules, I'm reasonably confident I could successfully sue. They have backed down on issues like the KHIAI bag because they are aware that they are on legally thin ice if they try to use 1st amendment activity as the basis for barring a passenger from a plane. But other than that, I think they have pretty wide latitude in terms of whom they keep off. But I would expect that if they are unable to articulate a specific and credible reason for it they would be at risk of a lawsuit of some sort.

As for development of probable cause in relation to a security inspection, it's pretty straight forward. Walking down the street with decapitated head in a bag, if its not dripping blood on the sidewalk as you walk there is pretty much no way a cop could get a look inside. But if a screener sees it, they are allowed to alert the cops by saying "it looks like he has a decapitated head in the bag," and voíla -- instant probable cause and the cops can search (although it should be noted that the cop in that case wouldn't be able to search beyond what was necessary to establish whether there was or was not a decapitated head in your bag, i.e., he couldn't search your bag, find out it was just a bowling ball, and then search your jacket and find a packet of cocaine).

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674503)

Mine was search incident to arrest.


Wasn't. See above. Inventory searches are also permissible, and recommended. :)

Originally Posted by Bart (Post 11674590)

Mission Creep: The Movie!

Coming soon to a theater near you!

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 11674661)

This is late but when I was a LEO, probable cause was defined as those facts or circumstances that would lead "the average, reasonable and prudent man" to believe that a crime was being planned, was being committed or had just been committed.

That being said we are faced with a dilemna about the issue when we open the bag and find contraband of any sort.

Most of the TSO's that I work with are of the opinion that the law is the law and they have no discretion in issues like this.

I can tell you that just yesterday at the WTMD I patted a man down and found a glass dope pipe in his pants. The dilemna is whether or not to notify the LEO's. With 40 plus cameras at the checkpoint and other people including TSO's knowing what was going on, I could not risk letting this go, it would have meant my job. As federal officers we are sworn to uphold the laws and that means that anything that is illegal must be reported. We had this discussion years ago on here and there are laws that require you to report crimes it is furthermore the position of the Federal Government that all crimes be reported.

Can an ounce of pot take down a plane? No! Is it illegal to have? Yes! are we duty bound to report it? Yes! Legally required to report it? Yes! Morally and ethically required? No! Which one do you think wins?

Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 11674686)

This is proof positive that it's all about keeping your job. That's sad -- really sad.

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674495)

Did I make such a claim? Cite source, please.

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674495)

They may refer such things to local/fed LEOs. I'm not aware of any requirement to do so. Of course, I'm not a TSO so maybe one of them on the board may answer if such an admin requirement exists.

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674495)

Nor to rules prohibit a TSO from making the referral. It would then be up to the local/fed LEO to determine if sufficient cause exists to warrant further investigation, based upon the totality of the circumstances.

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674495)

First and foremost, by interviewing the subject. :)

Originally Posted by T-the-B (Post 11674383)

LEO, "You have to file the proper paperwork if you're taking >$10,000 out of the country. Did you do that?"

PAX #1, "Not yet, I'll do it before I board my flight."

PAX #2, "I mailed it in on the way to the airport."...

Originally Posted by Bart (Post 11674739)

I disagree that it's anything sad. And I'm kind of surprised that you would characterize it as such.

Have you never made a decision as a military officer that went against your personal beliefs yet were squarely within the parameters of your professional obligations?

Originally Posted by Superguy (Post 11674718)

Agreed.

I'd also like to know how it could be conclusively proven a pipe is for illegal drugs short of a chemical analysis.

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 11674495)

Nor to rules prohibit a TSO from making the referral (re: cash on domestic flight)

Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 11674832)

Let me draw an analogy. It's not illegal to take a Tom Clancy novel on an aircraft.