In your experience: TSA toning it down?
#16
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HSV
Posts: 876
Yeah, uh, guys? I mentioned it before on the EoS Blog when it comes to the Checkpoint Evolution program (which has since been renamed as "Engage!" by the way; evidently, some people were raising a fuss over "Evolution"). The whole point of the Evolution program, aside from some airports getting really nice toys to play with and the new uniforms in general, was the ginormous grilling on customer service skills.
Kip made it very plain that he wants the barking to stop, and the Evolution, or Engage! or whatever it is that they want to call it this week is the big push from the upper echelons to affect that. Obviously it's not going to stamp it all out, but it's apparently making some pretty good headway.
We haven't 'barked' in HSV for almost a year now, since Kip first put out the mandate that it will stop. Previously, the most efficient way of telling people what needs to come out of their bags to go through the x-ray, and that shoes have to come off and blahblahblahblah was to just speak in a loud voice and talk to the whole of the line. Now, we operate under direction (with some people receiving disciplinary actions for not following said direction) to speak only to the first person in line on the other side of the WTMD. It's not quite as efficient, but it is a lot quieter.
Yeah, some people are like that. They used to be like that here in HSV too back when we first started, until it was made abundantly clear to them that it's better to get an elbow in the ribs from a fellow TSO than it was to have it escalate up the chain of command and get supervisors and management involved. There was a big trend back then, and this guy seems to be still a holdout for it, that if you're not a supervisor, you're not in charge of them no matter what.
Here, since TSOs (TSSs, at the time) didn't wear ties and supervisors did, the usual response was "Hey, where's your tie? Then don't tell me what to do."
Thankfully, perhaps given the small workforce we have in HSV which has built up a good sense of camaraderie, that attitude is changed. It doesn't matter what someone's rank is, if they talk sense then you should pay attention and listen.
Kip made it very plain that he wants the barking to stop, and the Evolution, or Engage! or whatever it is that they want to call it this week is the big push from the upper echelons to affect that. Obviously it's not going to stamp it all out, but it's apparently making some pretty good headway.
We haven't 'barked' in HSV for almost a year now, since Kip first put out the mandate that it will stop. Previously, the most efficient way of telling people what needs to come out of their bags to go through the x-ray, and that shoes have to come off and blahblahblahblah was to just speak in a loud voice and talk to the whole of the line. Now, we operate under direction (with some people receiving disciplinary actions for not following said direction) to speak only to the first person in line on the other side of the WTMD. It's not quite as efficient, but it is a lot quieter.
Originally Posted by PolicyPeddler
"Everything is fine except for your continuous barking. Please be quiet". He told her, no and continued with his loud tirade.
Here, since TSOs (TSSs, at the time) didn't wear ties and supervisors did, the usual response was "Hey, where's your tie? Then don't tell me what to do."
Thankfully, perhaps given the small workforce we have in HSV which has built up a good sense of camaraderie, that attitude is changed. It doesn't matter what someone's rank is, if they talk sense then you should pay attention and listen.
#17




Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: BDL
Programs: NWA Platinum, HHonors Diamond, SPG, YX, AA
Posts: 5,354
I wouldn't say it's gotten better, if anything (from my limited first hand experience) it's been a mixed bag.
What's seems to have improved: I've brought 2 issues to supervisors who didn't get defensive when I encountered front line TSO's who pulled out "Do you want to fly today" when I dared to asked them to change their gloves, or not push my items though the x-ray when I wouldn't be able to pass though the WTMD for a while and didn't want my stuff out of my sight.
What's gotten worse: Since the new uniforms and badges, the chip-on-the-shoulder-LEO-rejects seems to be more willing than ever to try and intimidate. As I mentioned above, I've gotten a raised voice "Do you want to fly today?" twice in my past three trips.
What's seems to have improved: I've brought 2 issues to supervisors who didn't get defensive when I encountered front line TSO's who pulled out "Do you want to fly today" when I dared to asked them to change their gloves, or not push my items though the x-ray when I wouldn't be able to pass though the WTMD for a while and didn't want my stuff out of my sight.
What's gotten worse: Since the new uniforms and badges, the chip-on-the-shoulder-LEO-rejects seems to be more willing than ever to try and intimidate. As I mentioned above, I've gotten a raised voice "Do you want to fly today?" twice in my past three trips.
#18
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Antonio
Programs: Marriott, AA EXP, United, Alaska, AirTran
Posts: 184
I was surprised at STL
San Antonio is generally always pretty nice and low key. As a result, I'm only tortured half as much as other travelers. Only half the opportunity to get barked at.
This past weekend, I was expecting the usual STL "tough love" treatment. Was completely amazed by the experience. They were actually nice about stuff.
The couple in front of me must have just fallen off the turnip truck. Infrequent flyers I would say. The TSA fellow working the line was really nice to them. He approached them in a friendly manner and ahead of the xray and he helped them identify an entire carry-on bag full of prohibited items. Gave them courteous advice on what to do and why they needed to do it.
My jaw just about dropped to the floor. I was thinking Rod Serling was going to step out from behind the xray for an intro to the Twilight Zone.
The couple was stalled ahead of the xray. The TSA guy gently suggest to me that I might want to cut ahead of them. I did.
Got my stuff into the xray and stepped through the portal. The guy just beyond the scanner wants to pat me down. I'm wearing a baggy sweatshirt. Again, uncharacteristically polite.
Gas prices are down. TSA is being polite, professional, and courteous. We need to have administration changing elections more often!
This past weekend, I was expecting the usual STL "tough love" treatment. Was completely amazed by the experience. They were actually nice about stuff.
The couple in front of me must have just fallen off the turnip truck. Infrequent flyers I would say. The TSA fellow working the line was really nice to them. He approached them in a friendly manner and ahead of the xray and he helped them identify an entire carry-on bag full of prohibited items. Gave them courteous advice on what to do and why they needed to do it.
My jaw just about dropped to the floor. I was thinking Rod Serling was going to step out from behind the xray for an intro to the Twilight Zone.
The couple was stalled ahead of the xray. The TSA guy gently suggest to me that I might want to cut ahead of them. I did.
Got my stuff into the xray and stepped through the portal. The guy just beyond the scanner wants to pat me down. I'm wearing a baggy sweatshirt. Again, uncharacteristically polite.
Gas prices are down. TSA is being polite, professional, and courteous. We need to have administration changing elections more often!
#20
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MSY
Programs: DL, Hhonors Gold
Posts: 283
I'm in a walking cast and had wheelchair assist last week and while going through the metal detector, it went off. So SSSS put me in the special clear room so I can't get away 
so I could have additional screening. (I had gimped through the metal detector).
The female TSA agent came and told me I was selected for additional screening because the metal detector went off. I proceeded to point to my boot and say: there's a lot of METAL on this cast. So then I get the pat down and the WMD swipes...
While the agents were friendly and non-threatening, it just seems like a waste of everyone's time and resources to think: hey, the wand went off on the METAL of the boot and that's why the METAL detector went off.
I don't see how much harm I could have done in a foot cast and a wheelchair.

so I could have additional screening. (I had gimped through the metal detector). The female TSA agent came and told me I was selected for additional screening because the metal detector went off. I proceeded to point to my boot and say: there's a lot of METAL on this cast. So then I get the pat down and the WMD swipes...
While the agents were friendly and non-threatening, it just seems like a waste of everyone's time and resources to think: hey, the wand went off on the METAL of the boot and that's why the METAL detector went off.
I don't see how much harm I could have done in a foot cast and a wheelchair.
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Yeah, uh, guys? I mentioned it before on the EoS Blog when it comes to the Checkpoint Evolution program (which has since been renamed as "Engage!" by the way; evidently, some people were raising a fuss over "Evolution"). The whole point of the Evolution program, aside from some airports getting really nice toys to play with and the new uniforms in general, was the ginormous grilling on customer service skills.
And why bother calling it Engage? The bloggers largely ignore folks on there anyway and don't post answers. There's no engagement.
Kip made it very plain that he wants the barking to stop, and the Evolution, or Engage! or whatever it is that they want to call it this week is the big push from the upper echelons to affect that. Obviously it's not going to stamp it all out, but it's apparently making some pretty good headway.
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
Thanks for the tip. I always try to use the word evolution when I am around neo-cons / religious nuts. I shall now use it around TSO's to tick them off during future altercations.
#23


Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Programs: AAdvantage, MileagePlus, SkyMiles
Posts: 4,338
Do you mind giving us an example or two?
Thanks
Andrew
Thanks

Andrew
You must be kidding me! No it hasn't gotten better lately. If anything, they were mostly pleasant to deal with right up till the week they switched uniforms. I have had a number of unfortunate encounters with them since then. It's like they think they are LAPD and the public is Rodney King.
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11,248
Not too bad at all
I recently flew back to the US and took a couple of domestic flights before departing back to China and yes, I think the TSA is getting better. It is much better than in China now where everytime I get the wanding/full pat down regardless of whether or not I have any metal objects (I think the metal detectors are set to beep for everyone). No liquids of anykind are allowed on Chinese domestic flights so not even a baggie is possible.
In comparison at all my TSA checkpoints last month I didn't have to wait (SFO and ORD) and my bags/person made it thru without a hitch...if only the shoes didn't have to come off I'd say it would be perfect! Employees were generally friendly and helpful.
In comparison at all my TSA checkpoints last month I didn't have to wait (SFO and ORD) and my bags/person made it thru without a hitch...if only the shoes didn't have to come off I'd say it would be perfect! Employees were generally friendly and helpful.
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,034
Yeah, uh, guys? I mentioned it before on the EoS Blog when it comes to the Checkpoint Evolution program (which has since been renamed as "Engage!" by the way; evidently, some people were raising a fuss over "Evolution"). The whole point of the Evolution program, aside from some airports getting really nice toys to play with and the new uniforms in general, was the ginormous grilling on customer service skills.
Secondly, how can there be an evolution in security when you're largely using the same x-ray and WTMD equipment the private screeners used?
(Nothing personal to you Dean).
Been through a couple of stations over the past few of weeks that haven't gotten the memo.
#28
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Programs: UA/CO(1K-PLT), AA(PLT), QR, EK, Marriott(PLT), Hilton(DMND)
Posts: 9,538
here you are...
1) Multiple TSO's barking at pax at the checkpoint. Sounds like Spitalfields at 5 AM. I am preparing trays to pass through the x-ray when one of them starts barking at me, mimicing everything I'm doing. "Now take out your laptop", "Don't forget to remove your shoes", "Make sure you have your boarding pass". I'm getting a bit peeved so I blurt out "Are you a tosser in real life or just in the workplace?". It went downhill from there and things ended in me reusing a secondary, declaring that I would not be traveling, exiting the checkpoint, reprinting my BP and entering another checkpoint.
2) TSO's not following policy re/ diabetic supplements in multiple locations. I withdrew from one checkpoint. At another, the supervisor was using delay tactics to intimidate me, the terminal manager got involved and decided to practice medicine without a licence, declaring the particular supplement ineffective. I grabbed it and left, expecting the LEO who was standing in the corner watching the whole sorry affair to arrest me but he just took off in the other direction on his bike.
3) Three bottles of water accidentally left in bag. I apologized when they caught it but the TSO decided to make a big deal out of it and threatened to call the police, to which I replied "Please do call the police. I'd love to see their reaction when you tell them why you have wasted their time". End result: half arsed secondary and let go with a stern warning.
4) TSO leafing through all pages of my passport. She gets irritated when I ask her if I can help her find the ID page (the one I presented her with - wide open in the first place). She calls for a secondary. I call for a supervisor to state I have been selected for a retaliatory secondary and explain what happened. The pax behind me (another FT'er as it happens) chimes in to defend me and we both get full scale secondaries.
5) I am selected for a secondary and am led out of sight of my belongings. I tell the TSO that I'd like to remove my three trays and two carryon's from the conveyor so that my stuff does not hold up the line and inconvenience anyone. "It's too late - once you walk into ""the secondary zone"" you cannot leave." I tell him I'd like to at least face my belongings and am reminded of this mythical "secondary zone". I tell him I am going to get my belongings whether he likes it or not and that when I get back to have his supervisor and the terminal manager waiting for me. He shouts something that I ignore completely. The supervisor is not happy with him for not following proper procedure to perform a secondary and 20 minutes later I am on my way.
That's more gyp than I've had from them over the past six years or so.
Last edited by PhlyingRPh; Oct 16, 2008 at 10:24 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HSV
Posts: 876
Originally Posted by Superguy
And why bother calling it Engage? The bloggers largely ignore folks on there anyway and don't post answers. There's no engagement.
Originally Posted by Less02
Gotta love these little program names, Evolution, Engage!, etc. Do they force you to spend more time learning acronyms than they do in actual bomb detection tests?

But to answer your question - not really, no. Granted, you pick up on the acronyms eventually just to make life simpler, but we've never been sat down and had them ground into us. Obviously, though, I can't tell you about the bomb detection tests except to say that they're frequent. Anything more specific than that is (you guessed it!) SSI.
Secondly, how can there be an evolution in security when you're largely using the same x-ray and WTMD equipment the private screeners used?
It's less an evolution in the screening process and more a refocusing on customer service skills on, like, a grand scale. On paper and in theory, anyway. What actually happens on the floor could well be a very, very different story.
(Nothing personal to you Dean).
#30
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,972


