Ask a SPOTnik
#256
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,671
It's dated February 22, 2002. It does not contain any of the words shoe, footwear, laptop, luggage, tool, liquid, gel, or boarding pass. The word identity is only used to refer to identities of aircraft, aircraft operators, government agents, job applicants, law enforcement officers, and prisoners.
I don't think this comes close to describing all the rules and regulations with which we are required to abide in order to avoid having our freedom of movement restricted by a TSA agent at one of TSA's airport checkpoints.
I don't think this comes close to describing all the rules and regulations with which we are required to abide in order to avoid having our freedom of movement restricted by a TSA agent at one of TSA's airport checkpoints.
#257
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 239
I understand the issue with the date. As I said, it seems to contain many of the rules that I understand to be currently in place. It is far from user friendly or complete, but it is a start. I will continue to research and post further information, if I find it.
In the meantime, here are some segments which I believe are relevant to issues raised on this thread. I am not a lawyer, so please do not take this as official legal advice.
In the meantime, here are some segments which I believe are relevant to issues raised on this thread. I am not a lawyer, so please do not take this as official legal advice.
Section 1540.109 is a new requirement prohibiting any person from interfering with, assaulting, threatening, or intimidating screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties.....
This rule does not prevent good-faith questions from individuals seeking to understand the screening of their persons or their property. But abusive, distracting behavior, and attempts to prevent screeners from performing required screening, are subject to civil penalties under this rule.
This rule does not prevent good-faith questions from individuals seeking to understand the screening of their persons or their property. But abusive, distracting behavior, and attempts to prevent screeners from performing required screening, are subject to civil penalties under this rule.
Title 49, United States Code, 46503, was added in ATSA to provide a criminal penalty for interfering with security personnel. Section 1540.109 permits TSA to seek a civil penalty for actions that may not warrant criminal prosecution under section 46503 but do warrant legal enforcement action.
Section 1540.101 regarding the carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals, is transferred from 108.201(e) and (f),
108.203(e), and 129.27(a) and (b).
108.203(e), and 129.27(a) and (b).
1540.109 Prohibition against interference with screening personnel. No person may interfere with, assault, threaten, or intimidate screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties under this subchapter.
1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
(a) On an individuals person or accessible propertyprohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individuals person or accessible property
(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individuals person or accessible property before entering a sterile area;
(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or
(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under 1544.201 or 1546.201 of this chapter
(a) On an individuals person or accessible propertyprohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individuals person or accessible property
(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individuals person or accessible property before entering a sterile area;
(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or
(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under 1544.201 or 1546.201 of this chapter
1544.201 Acceptance and screening of individuals and accessible property.
(a) Preventing or deterring the carriage of any explosive, incendiary, or deadly or dangerous weapon.
Each aircraft operator must use the measures in its security program to prevent or deter the carriage of any weapon, explosive, or incendiary on or about each individuals person or accessible property before boarding an aircraft or entering a sterile area.
(b) Screening of individuals and accessible property.
Except as provided in its security program, each aircraft operator must ensure that each individual entering a sterile area at each preboard screening checkpoint for which it is responsible, and all accessible property under that individuals control, are inspected for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries as provided in 1544.207.
(c) Refusal to transport.
Each aircraft operator must deny entry into a sterile area and must refuse to transport
(1) Any individual who does not consent to a search or inspection of his or her person in accordance with the system prescribed in this part; and
(2) Any property of any individual or other person who does not consent to a
search or inspection of that property in accordance with the system prescribed by this part.
(a) Preventing or deterring the carriage of any explosive, incendiary, or deadly or dangerous weapon.
Each aircraft operator must use the measures in its security program to prevent or deter the carriage of any weapon, explosive, or incendiary on or about each individuals person or accessible property before boarding an aircraft or entering a sterile area.
(b) Screening of individuals and accessible property.
Except as provided in its security program, each aircraft operator must ensure that each individual entering a sterile area at each preboard screening checkpoint for which it is responsible, and all accessible property under that individuals control, are inspected for weapons, explosives, and incendiaries as provided in 1544.207.
(c) Refusal to transport.
Each aircraft operator must deny entry into a sterile area and must refuse to transport
(1) Any individual who does not consent to a search or inspection of his or her person in accordance with the system prescribed in this part; and
(2) Any property of any individual or other person who does not consent to a
search or inspection of that property in accordance with the system prescribed by this part.
1544.207 Screening of individuals and property.
(a) Applicability of this section. This section applies to the inspection of
individuals, accessible property, checked baggage, and cargo as required under this part.
(b) Locations within the United States at which TSA conducts screening. Each aircraft operator must ensure that the individuals or property have been inspected by TSA before boarding or loading on its aircraft. This paragraph applies when TSA is conducting screening using TSA employees or
when using companies under contract with TSA.
(a) Applicability of this section. This section applies to the inspection of
individuals, accessible property, checked baggage, and cargo as required under this part.
(b) Locations within the United States at which TSA conducts screening. Each aircraft operator must ensure that the individuals or property have been inspected by TSA before boarding or loading on its aircraft. This paragraph applies when TSA is conducting screening using TSA employees or
when using companies under contract with TSA.
#258
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 576
#259
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,971
Hello everyone,
I am a BDO, I have been reading your forum for some time, and have finally been inspired by your open hostility and derision. I will attempt to answer any questions or concerns you pose me, and we'll all see how long I keep my job.
I am not an official TSA spokesperson, and am not authorized to take this action, although I view talking with the public and attempting to answer questions to be part of my official job duties. I am, however, doing this all on my own time, so please understand if I am not as quick with the responses as you might like.
I am a BDO, I have been reading your forum for some time, and have finally been inspired by your open hostility and derision. I will attempt to answer any questions or concerns you pose me, and we'll all see how long I keep my job.
I am not an official TSA spokesperson, and am not authorized to take this action, although I view talking with the public and attempting to answer questions to be part of my official job duties. I am, however, doing this all on my own time, so please understand if I am not as quick with the responses as you might like.
If you BDO's are so adept at noting people who may be up to no good then how come you never catch your fellow TSO's who are stealing from travelers?
My question is not flippant, surely a rouge TSO will display some of these markers you guys are on the look out for. A bad guy is a bad guy, no matter how dressed!
#260


Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Programs: DL MM Gold
Posts: 1,687
Insightful question. And there are a thousand times as many rogue TSOs as terrorists to interact with every day. The answer probably is that they're outwards looking. And a TSO wouldn't be intimidated into engaging in BDO small talk the way flyers are.
#261
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1
passenger manifest data
Hello
I don't know if this is the right place to ask---but do you know if it's possible to obtain passnger manigest information for a spcific flight (Lufthansa by the way)??
I can tell you (perhaps privately) why I need this if necessary...
Thanks
I don't know if this is the right place to ask---but do you know if it's possible to obtain passnger manigest information for a spcific flight (Lufthansa by the way)??
I can tell you (perhaps privately) why I need this if necessary...
Thanks
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Oct 10, 2008 at 11:53 am Reason: email addy deleted
#262
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cypress, TX
Programs: CO Plat, Priority Club Plat
Posts: 641
Curious from a BDO's perspective how you would take this...
I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.
I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.
Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.
Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?
I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.
I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.
Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.
Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?
#264
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 239
Sorry, I've been away for a while.
Well, the specifics of what BDOs catch, or don't catch, are all considered SSI. I'm afraid any honest answer to your question might run me afoul of the SSI gurus.
Yours are also some insightful observations, although we do try to avoid intimidating passengers into speaking with us. Sorry I can't say more.
You're probably quite a ways out of my expertise, but if you want to PM me, I will help you if I can. This sounds like something that would need to be handled through the airline, probably with the help of a lawyer.
You sound like a pretty typical passenger to me. As I stated earlier on this thread, BDOs look for groups of behaviors. I can't comment on the specifics of what might cause a BDO referral.
I would guess they are screening potential passenger using observation techniques.
It's not unusual for BDOs to be in areas other than the checkpoints. It's also not unusual for BDOs to talk to one another. If there's anything more to it than that, I'm don't have the need to know.
If you BDO's are so adept at noting people who may be up to no good then how come you never catch your fellow TSO's who are stealing from travelers?
My question is not flippant, surely a rouge TSO will display some of these markers you guys are on the look out for. A bad guy is a bad guy, no matter how dressed!
My question is not flippant, surely a rouge TSO will display some of these markers you guys are on the look out for. A bad guy is a bad guy, no matter how dressed!
Curious from a BDO's perspective how you would take this...
I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.
I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.
Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.
Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?
I'm quite a large man, at 6'5" and 300 pounds, look like a linebacker walking through the airport, with my laptop backpack on and what not.
I get overheated quite easily, and normally after walking from my rental car all the way to the rental car counter, then walk to the ticketing counter, then to the security line, I'll have broken out in a light to medium sweat.
Once I get to my gate, and sit down, I'll cool off pretty quickly, but of course, going from rental car, to ticketing, to security, I'm non-stop, so don't cool off.
Would this sweating cause me to get extra attention from a BDO, wondering if I was nervous about my flight, or if something was wrong, to have me stand out as a potential terrorist, and as a result, cause more screening then necessary, all due to a medical condition that I can not control?
It's not unusual for BDOs to be in areas other than the checkpoints. It's also not unusual for BDOs to talk to one another. If there's anything more to it than that, I'm don't have the need to know.
#265
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CLT
Programs: Choice Hotels/FFOCUS
Posts: 7,259
I would guess they are screening potential passenger using observation techniques.
.[/QUOTE]
If they are doing that they are the best there is
I watch them & they aren't even looking at people. Now there's this one female spot who always stops to talk to me & it's not about security
.[/QUOTE]
If they are doing that they are the best there is
I watch them & they aren't even looking at people. Now there's this one female spot who always stops to talk to me & it's not about security
#266
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 239

(These are not the terrorists you are looking for...)
I've gotten to know some of the regular travelers at my airport as well. It's a one of my favorite benefits of the job. People are endlessly fascinating, and it is part of my job to talk to people in the airport, help solve problems, and generally make travel easier and more pleasant for passengers.
(Come to think of it, this might be a good job for OOTPYLTH.)
#267
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Commuting around the mid-atlantic and rust-belt on any number of RJs
Programs: TSA Random Selectee Platinum, * Gold, SPG/HH/MR mid-tier, and a tiny bag of pretzels.
Posts: 9,255
#268
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: I work for the TSA
Posts: 848
I've gotten to know some of the regular travelers at my airport as well. It's a one of my favorite benefits of the job. People are endlessly fascinating, and it is part of my job to talk to people in the airport, help solve problems, and generally make travel easier and more pleasant for passengers.
(Come to think of it, this might be a good job for OOTPYLTH.)
(Come to think of it, this might be a good job for OOTPYLTH.)

However ... the BDOs at my airport generally stand in one spot for long periods of time. I'm not sure I could handle that ... I'm one of those types who have to be moving around or doing something constantly. (An office job would be akin to torture for me! Actually, one of the things I like about working for the TSA is that it's moderately physical.)
Also, our BDOs usually don't talk or interact with passengers unless they're interrogating them, and when they do, it's in an aggressive manner. It seems the unfriendliest screeners are promoted to BDO, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence! At least where I work, they seem to be looking for a certain "type," and I don't think I'd fit the profile, or fit in with the others. (Yikes!)
#269
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,971
Thank you! 
However ... the BDOs at my airport generally stand in one spot for long periods of time.
Also, our BDOs usually don't talk or interact with passengers unless they're interrogating them, and when they do, it's in an aggressive manner. It seems the unfriendliest screeners are promoted to BDO, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence!

However ... the BDOs at my airport generally stand in one spot for long periods of time.
Also, our BDOs usually don't talk or interact with passengers unless they're interrogating them, and when they do, it's in an aggressive manner. It seems the unfriendliest screeners are promoted to BDO, and I'm not sure that's a coincidence!
I wonder if these traits are common across the country?
How does TSA expect to gain any respect if this is how their employees are seen by other TSA workers?
How do you think it comes across to the average traveler who sees this type of behavior from TSA employees?
I think your post is a strong argument for a total rebuild of TSA.
#270
Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: I work for the TSA
Posts: 848
I wonder if these traits are common across the country?
It's also possible that I'm slightly paranoid.

I think your post is a strong argument for a total rebuild of TSA.
We already did it once, after 9-11 ... although in truth, many people who already were working as airline screeners simply received a new uniform and a hefty raise in pay!

