A functional binary bomb!
#16
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,481
My position is that there is no such thing as safety. Safety is just a comforting illusion.
You face more danger when you step into a car than when you step into an airplane. That's never going to change, and because people react emotionally the chances of having less goofball-ish security in airports are slim.
You face more danger when you step into a car than when you step into an airplane. That's never going to change, and because people react emotionally the chances of having less goofball-ish security in airports are slim.
#17
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: LGB/SNA/ATL/CPH
Posts: 44
It's not just bomb detectors
Why do we lock our doors ... when a window is so easly broken?
Indeed.
As the Israeli security chief testified after 9/11, it's foolish to depend exclusively on mechanical screening, the inference being that it can never be 100% effective, or even close. The numerous tests of the system which have exposed holes -- from lax inspection to machine shortcomings -- only confirms this. He said, what's vital is the active acreening, including, yes, profiling and scrutiny at every layer, from booking to check-in to airport police to vendor to cabin crew, to recognize certain behavior and to know the questions to ask and recognize red-flag responses. (Some "dumb" questions are meant more to elicit an affect than a particular answer.) This last part is key and requires formal training.
The problem is analogous to that of SIGINT versus HUMINT, where amongst the factors leading to 9/11 was the over-reliance on signals intelligence (information-gathering by machine), at the expense of human intelligence (people-to-people contact). Yes, we can always improve mechanical screening, but what's more important is to make sure that eyes and ears are kept as sharp as the machinery.
The problem here is that while it's easy for a TSA agent to test the system with a "bomb" in carry-on, it's very tricky actually to play a bad actor. I wonder if the TSA has a test to see if a "terrorist" could be interdicted independent of the machinery. Can an agent be trained, for the purpose of testing the system, to act suspiciously? Again, this is problematic, since detecting suspicious behavior is often a matter of intuition, which means suspicious behavior is infinitely variable and impossible to predict until you see it.
So, here we go back to recognizing that neither mechanical nor human screening is sufficient. Nor is domestic and foreign intelligence. But since the main lesson of 9/11 was that these layers must be complimentary rather than exclusive, the inevitable holes in each will be covered by the other. At least that's how it's supposed to work nowadays. Alas, testing just one layer, like bomb detectors, doesn't tell us the story.
Indeed.
As the Israeli security chief testified after 9/11, it's foolish to depend exclusively on mechanical screening, the inference being that it can never be 100% effective, or even close. The numerous tests of the system which have exposed holes -- from lax inspection to machine shortcomings -- only confirms this. He said, what's vital is the active acreening, including, yes, profiling and scrutiny at every layer, from booking to check-in to airport police to vendor to cabin crew, to recognize certain behavior and to know the questions to ask and recognize red-flag responses. (Some "dumb" questions are meant more to elicit an affect than a particular answer.) This last part is key and requires formal training.
The problem is analogous to that of SIGINT versus HUMINT, where amongst the factors leading to 9/11 was the over-reliance on signals intelligence (information-gathering by machine), at the expense of human intelligence (people-to-people contact). Yes, we can always improve mechanical screening, but what's more important is to make sure that eyes and ears are kept as sharp as the machinery.
The problem here is that while it's easy for a TSA agent to test the system with a "bomb" in carry-on, it's very tricky actually to play a bad actor. I wonder if the TSA has a test to see if a "terrorist" could be interdicted independent of the machinery. Can an agent be trained, for the purpose of testing the system, to act suspiciously? Again, this is problematic, since detecting suspicious behavior is often a matter of intuition, which means suspicious behavior is infinitely variable and impossible to predict until you see it.
So, here we go back to recognizing that neither mechanical nor human screening is sufficient. Nor is domestic and foreign intelligence. But since the main lesson of 9/11 was that these layers must be complimentary rather than exclusive, the inevitable holes in each will be covered by the other. At least that's how it's supposed to work nowadays. Alas, testing just one layer, like bomb detectors, doesn't tell us the story.
Last edited by Jack M. Rice; Feb 25, 2008 at 12:29 pm
#18
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,481
#19
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,481
All of this is beside the point. As the Israeli security chief testified after 9/11, it's foolish to depend exclusively on mechanical screening, the inference being that it can never be 100% effective, or even close. The numerous tests of the system which have exposed holes -- from lax inspection to machine shortcomings -- only confirms this. He said, what's vital is the active acreening, including, yes, profiling and scrutiny at every layer, from booking to check-in to airport police to vendor to cabin crew, to recognize certain behavior ...
we can't pretend that certain things are impossible or that threats dont exist though ...
#20




Join Date: Sep 2003
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#21
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A broken window attracts much more attention than someone going thru a door. A lot of people would probably think that someone going thru an open door has reason to be there ... especially in an area where there are a lot of transients.
Except in rare circumstances, someone breaking and/or going thru a window is going to raise red flags with those in the area.
Except in rare circumstances, someone breaking and/or going thru a window is going to raise red flags with those in the area.
#22
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
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Oh, and by the way
Improvised explosive devices are the tools of the terrorist, the criminal and the amateur and include letter bombs, suicide bombs, car bombs, large vehicle bombs and vehicle borne IEDs (VBIEDs). Alford Technologies is at the forefront of bomb disposal technology and has developed an extensive family of IEDD equipment and VBIED disruptors.
#23
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Oct 2004
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The TSA and other security forces around the world are paying far too much attention to the water carnival, which in its obnoxious search for each bottle of water or hand lotion or shampoo is blinding those security forces to much more conventional threats. Weapons and bomb components make it through the checkpoints at an alarming rate, and it's quite arguable that the distractions of the water carnival are a large contributing factor to those failures.
#24
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M




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"A similar alternative, nitroethane, is less well known but equally as effective. There are fewer restrictions on obtaining and transporting this chemical. "
"A fourth candidate, methyl nitrate, is unusual in that it will explode as soon as it is combined with another substance. It does not need to be ignited by a detonator device."
ETD or ETP will detect these. X-ray will not.
"It can reliably be caused to detonate by mixing it with ingredient X," said Dr Alford. He was not willing to reveal the name of the activating chemical."
Putz. Ingredient X isn't going to remain a mystery for long. Just come out and say it so we can continue to evaluate the validity of these claims.

"Liquid explosives would not necessarily be picked up by "sniffer" type security scanners if placed in carefully sealed and cleaned containers, said Dr Alford."
ETD, Dr. Alford. And ETP will still pick up less-than-carefully packed nitrates.
#25
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M




Join Date: May 2000
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Ingredient X
"Nitromethane known to reduce the sensitivity of nitroglycerine. Nitromethane may be added to compositions containing nitroglycerine. The reference further teaches that trinitrotoluene may be added to said compositions. Pyridine is known to be a highly effective solvent for trinitrotoluene. It is also a well-known sensitizer for nitromethane; however, it is seldom used for its sensitizer properties because more effective sensitizers are known and available. Trinitrotoluene was found to be soluble in nitromethane. The US Army Ballistic Research Laboratory was not aware of this property until 1987. "
"There are ways to utilize nitroparaffins as the basis of a binary system. A stable explosive composition can be made by adding a sensitizer, in the form of resin balloons, to nitromethane. It is well known that amines (particularly ethylenediamine) will sensitize nitromethane so that it will detonate with a blasting cap. These mixtures become unstable and decompose after a few days. Most of these sensitizing agents are very toxic and difficult to work with safely. The basis of this patent is that by entrapping air into the nitromethane liquid, by means of micro balloons (resin, glass, etc.), it can be made cap-sensitive. However since the balloons will float to the surface of pure nitromethane, a thickening (gelling) agent must be added to prevent this."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ves-liquid.htm
"There are ways to utilize nitroparaffins as the basis of a binary system. A stable explosive composition can be made by adding a sensitizer, in the form of resin balloons, to nitromethane. It is well known that amines (particularly ethylenediamine) will sensitize nitromethane so that it will detonate with a blasting cap. These mixtures become unstable and decompose after a few days. Most of these sensitizing agents are very toxic and difficult to work with safely. The basis of this patent is that by entrapping air into the nitromethane liquid, by means of micro balloons (resin, glass, etc.), it can be made cap-sensitive. However since the balloons will float to the surface of pure nitromethane, a thickening (gelling) agent must be added to prevent this."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ves-liquid.htm
#26
Join Date: Oct 2006
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#27
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#28
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M




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I put a lot more faith into trace detection, which works rather well, than x-ray which relies on bomber stupidity and x-ray drone attentiveness, and not at all on liquids.
#29
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,481
"Nitromethane known to reduce the sensitivity of nitroglycerine. Nitromethane may be added to compositions containing nitroglycerine. The reference further teaches that trinitrotoluene may be added to said compositions. Pyridine is known to be a highly effective solvent for trinitrotoluene. It is also a well-known sensitizer for nitromethane; however, it is seldom used for its sensitizer properties because more effective sensitizers are known and available. Trinitrotoluene was found to be soluble in nitromethane. The US Army Ballistic Research Laboratory was not aware of this property until 1987. "
"There are ways to utilize nitroparaffins as the basis of a binary system. A stable explosive composition can be made by adding a sensitizer, in the form of resin balloons, to nitromethane. It is well known that amines (particularly ethylenediamine) will sensitize nitromethane so that it will detonate with a blasting cap. These mixtures become unstable and decompose after a few days. Most of these sensitizing agents are very toxic and difficult to work with safely. The basis of this patent is that by entrapping air into the nitromethane liquid, by means of micro balloons (resin, glass, etc.), it can be made cap-sensitive. However since the balloons will float to the surface of pure nitromethane, a thickening (gelling) agent must be added to prevent this."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ves-liquid.htm
"There are ways to utilize nitroparaffins as the basis of a binary system. A stable explosive composition can be made by adding a sensitizer, in the form of resin balloons, to nitromethane. It is well known that amines (particularly ethylenediamine) will sensitize nitromethane so that it will detonate with a blasting cap. These mixtures become unstable and decompose after a few days. Most of these sensitizing agents are very toxic and difficult to work with safely. The basis of this patent is that by entrapping air into the nitromethane liquid, by means of micro balloons (resin, glass, etc.), it can be made cap-sensitive. However since the balloons will float to the surface of pure nitromethane, a thickening (gelling) agent must be added to prevent this."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ves-liquid.htm
#30
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M




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