View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree with the action undertaken by MKEbound?
Agree
766
75.92%
Disagree
144
14.27%
Neither agree nor disagree
75
7.43%
Not sure
24
2.38%
Voters: 1009. You may not vote on this poll
I was detained at the TSA checkpoint for about 25 minutes today
Oct 2, 2006, 5:28 am
#1396
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by bloggerchick
You people are unbelievable. You complain that the president didn't do enough to prevent the 9/11 attack and now you are complaining about airport security measures because they are inconvenient to you. The security measures are there for your own protection. Honestly, it is getting to the point where some of you don't deserve any of your constitutionally protected rights because you are abusing them. Yes, you have free speech but the officer was correct. At the airport, your individual rights don't mean anything; unless of course, you think you are more important than every other person getting on that plane. That officer was doing his job. He was just making sure that everything was safe. You should know by now that anything that could be even close to threatening has to be investigated. Stop whining. Make yourself useful. If the security measures at airports are a problem for you then don't fly.
"I think it's okay to lose my hand to gain one." What? That doesn't sound smart.
It's one thing for someone to do their job. It's another thing for an over-zealous employee to take words written on a bag about someone being an idiot and liken it to a bomb threat. They are not, and will never be, synonomous.
Oct 2, 2006, 5:29 am
#1397
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by HeHateY
I absolutely agree. Get on the horn to the Milwaukee Media, the Chicago papers and someone like the Business Travel writers at the NYTimes or WSJ.
Paging Joe Sharkey.
Hey, you might even get an apology from Comrade Hawley himself. Or at least Ann B. Davis as Alice.
Anyone know a sympathetic blog to post this story on?
Paging Joe Sharkey.
Hey, you might even get an apology from Comrade Hawley himself. Or at least Ann B. Davis as Alice.
Anyone know a sympathetic blog to post this story on?
Oct 2, 2006, 5:34 am
#1398
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Wow
The cucarachas have certainly come crawling out from under the woodwork with this thread! Kinda scary, isn't it?
Oct 2, 2006, 6:07 am
#1399
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Originally Posted by SlowTrekker
<emphasis in quote mine>Yes, it can be. There are US citizens now denied "permission" to return to their country due to this madness. LINK. I have no problem discussing the nature of my comings and goings with Govt. agents, but that is SOLELY due to the nature of the career I have CHOSEN to undertake. If I had chosen a career along the lines of my siblings, I would hope I would have the spine to refuse to submit to such an interrogation upon my return to my homeland.
When did we start banishing citizens, even without due process?
When did we start banishing citizens, even without due process?
Apparently, they are now back in the U.S.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/02/us...rtner=homepage
Oct 2, 2006, 6:39 am
#1400
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: IND
Programs: AA LT Gold, 1.5MM, Marriot
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
.....
Is the TSA right in telling him that he isn't allowed to make statements like that in there, yes they are, because in doing so he is demonstrating to the thousands of passengers he encountered that day that rules are stupid and we shouldn't have to abide by them. How many people will foolishly attempt what he did.. probably several. Is he free to express that belief, you bet, but it's better left to discuss at the bar with his friends.
Is the TSA right in telling him that he isn't allowed to make statements like that in there, yes they are, because in doing so he is demonstrating to the thousands of passengers he encountered that day that rules are stupid and we shouldn't have to abide by them. How many people will foolishly attempt what he did.. probably several. Is he free to express that belief, you bet, but it's better left to discuss at the bar with his friends.
So, just keep your mouth shut, lest you spark a rebellion amongst the masses?
Because here's the thing...when the government is doing things that don't work, when the government WE elected via that whole "of the
people, by the people, for the people" thing does entirely stupid and inane things that encroach upon our Constitutionally-sanctioned rights (and I'm not talking just about TSA regulations in that point, but the many other things that have happened due to 9/11 under the guise of safety and homeland security), we have a responsibility to stand up and say NO, even if there's just one lone dude standing there.
Remember that picture of that guy in Tiananmen Square? By your logic, that guy was also showing others that the rules were stupid and shouldn't be followed. Now, maybe that guy's demonstration was a bigger, more historically significant one than MKEbound's effort last week, but the principle is the same.
Sometimes it takes the more radical and the more courageous of us to notify the rest of us that there's something wrong and we need to take a closer look. As one with a bone fide Master's degree in sociology from a university where critical thinking is not just taught but encouraged, I promise you that history has shown that the efforts of protestors and demonstrators serve two social purposes- to notify those in charge that the citizenry will not tolerate their rights being trampled on and to alert the rest of the citizens to a problem.
So, as an American citizen who firmly believes in our right to free speech and our right to demonstrate, KUDOS to MKEbound for taking the risk to pull a prank in protest and garner media attention to notify those who might otherwise follow ineffective rules and regulations like sheep. The goal is to effect change- change that must happen, if we truly want our safety and security to be protected.
GG
Oct 2, 2006, 6:46 am
#1401
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
Originally Posted by fly no more
Your post makes little sense.
May I ask what your field of graduate study is? I've rarely met graduate students with poor grammar and ability to articulate one self such as yourself.
Also, your handle 2smrt4u reveals quite a bit about yourself. Most of which is in poor taste.
This forum has a lot of smart people in it, many who would be more deserving that the title you so smugly chose.
May I ask what your field of graduate study is? I've rarely met graduate students with poor grammar and ability to articulate one self such as yourself.
Also, your handle 2smrt4u reveals quite a bit about yourself. Most of which is in poor taste.
This forum has a lot of smart people in it, many who would be more deserving that the title you so smugly chose.
Oct 2, 2006, 6:47 am
#1402
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 40
How did he do that? Since when does following the rules create the impression that one is going to break them? You're the one studying logic, right?
And just what rules did he break? I think it's important that you tell us, since we would all like to avoid being detained when we go through security at the airport.[/QUOTE]
"MKEBound" went to the airport that day looking for a fight and to draw attention to himself. He got what he asked for. This is not simply a case of the TSA violating his right to free speech. The TSA manager had a decision to make. Was he a threat or a nuisance? Either way it was their job to give him a second look and they did. Did the manager make the statement that he was not allowed to exercise free speech "in here?" This is hear say for all of us here. We weren't there and cannot make an informed decision about what was really said. Doing so on the basis of only what MKEBound said happened would be irresponsible.
And just what rules did he break? I think it's important that you tell us, since we would all like to avoid being detained when we go through security at the airport.[/QUOTE]
"MKEBound" went to the airport that day looking for a fight and to draw attention to himself. He got what he asked for. This is not simply a case of the TSA violating his right to free speech. The TSA manager had a decision to make. Was he a threat or a nuisance? Either way it was their job to give him a second look and they did. Did the manager make the statement that he was not allowed to exercise free speech "in here?" This is hear say for all of us here. We weren't there and cannot make an informed decision about what was really said. Doing so on the basis of only what MKEBound said happened would be irresponsible.
Oct 2, 2006, 6:51 am
#1403
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 40
[QUOTE=GUWonder]The graduate course of "logical fallacy" was mentioned. That sounds more like a course than a field of study to me. 
You answered your own question. You're right "Critical Thinking" is a course not a field of study and I've never said it was. Logical fallacies are the things we must be able to differentiate while weeding through an argument.
You answered your own question. You're right "Critical Thinking" is a course not a field of study and I've never said it was. Logical fallacies are the things we must be able to differentiate while weeding through an argument.
Oct 2, 2006, 6:53 am
#1404
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by fly no more
Your post makes little sense.
May I ask what your field of graduate study is? I've rarely met graduate students with poor grammar and ability to articulate one self such as yourself.
Also, your handle 2smrt4u reveals quite a bit about yourself. Most of which is in poor taste.
This forum has a lot of smart people in it, many who would be more deserving that the title you so smugly chose.
May I ask what your field of graduate study is? I've rarely met graduate students with poor grammar and ability to articulate one self such as yourself.
Also, your handle 2smrt4u reveals quite a bit about yourself. Most of which is in poor taste.
This forum has a lot of smart people in it, many who would be more deserving that the title you so smugly chose.
No you may not, my credentials are not relevant to the discussion. Diverting attention away from my opinions by making wisecrack jokes about my intelligence and education is also irrelevant.
Oct 2, 2006, 6:54 am
#1405
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Originally Posted by nrr
Playing "devils advocate" for a moment--if one has a graduate degree in mathematics, say, why would you expect him (her) to be well versed in english grammar?
Do you mean "English" grammar?
Yes, if one has an advanced degree in any subject I, for one, expect him/her to be able to communicate correctly and effectively. Is not every candidate for an advanced degree required to write a thesis? If said thesis is not well constructed, then the candidate is unable to convey the results of his/her research and should not be granted the advanced degree.
Oct 2, 2006, 6:56 am
#1406
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by GeoGirl
Just to make sure I understand this particular point, are you saying that we should never demonstrate when we believe rules are stupid and we shouldn't have to abide by them, so that others won't also demonstrate?
So, just keep your mouth shut, lest you spark a rebellion amongst the masses?
Because here's the thing...when the government is doing things that don't work, when the government WE elected via that whole "of the
people, by the people, for the people" thing does entirely stupid and inane things that encroach upon our Constitutionally-sanctioned rights (and I'm not talking just about TSA regulations in that point, but the many other things that have happened due to 9/11 under the guise of safety and homeland security), we have a responsibility to stand up and say NO, even if there's just one lone dude standing there.
Remember that picture of that guy in Tiananmen Square? By your logic, that guy was also showing others that the rules were stupid and shouldn't be followed. Now, maybe that guy's demonstration was a bigger, more historically significant one than MKEbound's effort last week, but the principle is the same.
Sometimes it takes the more radical and the more courageous of us to notify the rest of us that there's something wrong and we need to take a closer look. As one with a bone fide Master's degree in sociology from a university where critical thinking is not just taught but encouraged, I promise you that history has shown that the efforts of protestors and demonstrators serve two social purposes- to notify those in charge that the citizenry will not tolerate their rights being trampled on and to alert the rest of the citizens to a problem.
So, as an American citizen who firmly believes in our right to free speech and our right to demonstrate, KUDOS to MKEbound for taking the risk to pull a prank in protest and garner media attention to notify those who might otherwise follow ineffective rules and regulations like sheep. The goal is to effect change- change that must happen, if we truly want our safety and security to be protected.
GG
So, just keep your mouth shut, lest you spark a rebellion amongst the masses?
Because here's the thing...when the government is doing things that don't work, when the government WE elected via that whole "of the
people, by the people, for the people" thing does entirely stupid and inane things that encroach upon our Constitutionally-sanctioned rights (and I'm not talking just about TSA regulations in that point, but the many other things that have happened due to 9/11 under the guise of safety and homeland security), we have a responsibility to stand up and say NO, even if there's just one lone dude standing there.
Remember that picture of that guy in Tiananmen Square? By your logic, that guy was also showing others that the rules were stupid and shouldn't be followed. Now, maybe that guy's demonstration was a bigger, more historically significant one than MKEbound's effort last week, but the principle is the same.
Sometimes it takes the more radical and the more courageous of us to notify the rest of us that there's something wrong and we need to take a closer look. As one with a bone fide Master's degree in sociology from a university where critical thinking is not just taught but encouraged, I promise you that history has shown that the efforts of protestors and demonstrators serve two social purposes- to notify those in charge that the citizenry will not tolerate their rights being trampled on and to alert the rest of the citizens to a problem.
So, as an American citizen who firmly believes in our right to free speech and our right to demonstrate, KUDOS to MKEbound for taking the risk to pull a prank in protest and garner media attention to notify those who might otherwise follow ineffective rules and regulations like sheep. The goal is to effect change- change that must happen, if we truly want our safety and security to be protected.
GG
Oct 2, 2006, 7:04 am
#1407
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: IND
Programs: AA LT Gold, 1.5MM, Marriot
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
If you keep teasing the dog, sooner or later he is going to bite you.
GG
Oct 2, 2006, 7:15 am
#1408
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: BDL
Programs: NWA Platinum, HHonors Diamond, SPG, YX, AA
Posts: 5,351
Originally Posted by GUWonder
The graduate course of "logical fallacy" was mentioned. That sounds more like a course than a field of study to me.
To get back to the OP, when's the next time the original "Kip Hawley is an idiot" plastic bag will clear the same MKE airport checkpoint?
To get back to the OP, when's the next time the original "Kip Hawley is an idiot" plastic bag will clear the same MKE airport checkpoint?
Oct 2, 2006, 7:21 am
#1409
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: MCO - Where's the Admirals Club?
Programs: AA Plat, HH Gold, MR Gold
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by 2smrt4u
If you keep teasing the dog, sooner or later he is going to bite you.
As we sometimes say here on FlyerTalk, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
Oct 2, 2006, 7:51 am
#1410
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: UA 2K GS, SQ PPS, AA Ruby, NW Gold, Hertz Gold, Hyatt Gold, Starwood Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 618
GeoGirl,
very nice post. Some people should read it twice. I think its our duty to alert the government when its rules are inconsistent with the values and beliefs of the people. Given that the TSA has gone to great extremes to make it hard to affect change from the public (heck, we can't even know the rules and procedures in the name of security) then i think these actions are warranted.
-Par
very nice post. Some people should read it twice. I think its our duty to alert the government when its rules are inconsistent with the values and beliefs of the people. Given that the TSA has gone to great extremes to make it hard to affect change from the public (heck, we can't even know the rules and procedures in the name of security) then i think these actions are warranted.
-Par
Originally Posted by GeoGirl
Just to make sure I understand this particular point, are you saying that we should never demonstrate when we believe rules are stupid and we shouldn't have to abide by them, so that others won't also demonstrate?
So, just keep your mouth shut, lest you spark a rebellion amongst the masses?
Because here's the thing...when the government is doing things that don't work, when the government WE elected via that whole "of the
people, by the people, for the people" thing does entirely stupid and inane things that encroach upon our Constitutionally-sanctioned rights (and I'm not talking just about TSA regulations in that point, but the many other things that have happened due to 9/11 under the guise of safety and homeland security), we have a responsibility to stand up and say NO, even if there's just one lone dude standing there.
Remember that picture of that guy in Tiananmen Square? By your logic, that guy was also showing others that the rules were stupid and shouldn't be followed. Now, maybe that guy's demonstration was a bigger, more historically significant one than MKEbound's effort last week, but the principle is the same.
Sometimes it takes the more radical and the more courageous of us to notify the rest of us that there's something wrong and we need to take a closer look. As one with a bone fide Master's degree in sociology from a university where critical thinking is not just taught but encouraged, I promise you that history has shown that the efforts of protestors and demonstrators serve two social purposes- to notify those in charge that the citizenry will not tolerate their rights being trampled on and to alert the rest of the citizens to a problem.
So, as an American citizen who firmly believes in our right to free speech and our right to demonstrate, KUDOS to MKEbound for taking the risk to pull a prank in protest and garner media attention to notify those who might otherwise follow ineffective rules and regulations like sheep. The goal is to effect change- change that must happen, if we truly want our safety and security to be protected.
GG
So, just keep your mouth shut, lest you spark a rebellion amongst the masses?
Because here's the thing...when the government is doing things that don't work, when the government WE elected via that whole "of the
people, by the people, for the people" thing does entirely stupid and inane things that encroach upon our Constitutionally-sanctioned rights (and I'm not talking just about TSA regulations in that point, but the many other things that have happened due to 9/11 under the guise of safety and homeland security), we have a responsibility to stand up and say NO, even if there's just one lone dude standing there.
Remember that picture of that guy in Tiananmen Square? By your logic, that guy was also showing others that the rules were stupid and shouldn't be followed. Now, maybe that guy's demonstration was a bigger, more historically significant one than MKEbound's effort last week, but the principle is the same.
Sometimes it takes the more radical and the more courageous of us to notify the rest of us that there's something wrong and we need to take a closer look. As one with a bone fide Master's degree in sociology from a university where critical thinking is not just taught but encouraged, I promise you that history has shown that the efforts of protestors and demonstrators serve two social purposes- to notify those in charge that the citizenry will not tolerate their rights being trampled on and to alert the rest of the citizens to a problem.
So, as an American citizen who firmly believes in our right to free speech and our right to demonstrate, KUDOS to MKEbound for taking the risk to pull a prank in protest and garner media attention to notify those who might otherwise follow ineffective rules and regulations like sheep. The goal is to effect change- change that must happen, if we truly want our safety and security to be protected.
GG