A close friend , male,was asked last week, in MIA, to actually pull his pants down to his ankles-( in a closed area, thank god) despite having already and voluntarily removed shoes and belt and triggered no alarm whatsoever.
He was told that they needed to check the seams. Furthermore, my friend was greatly intimidated by the rudeness and unwillingness to explain any of this.

I am astounded. Is this normal now????? Anyone else had this experience? I find it shocking, and I find myself less and less willing to be subjected to this kind of humiliation. How can there be no recourse? Bottom line is - you just want to make the flight...

Your friend, in no uncertain terms, should have told the so-called
screeners to go f**k themselves. As long as passengers continue
to bend over and grab their ankles, rather than standing up for
themselves, this crap will continue and will only get worse!
In the words of Nancy Reagan, just say "NO!"

I agree. The TSA will keep on pushing the envelope farther and farther until the public resists. Remember the hideous breast exams of a few months ago? The public outcry forced the TSA to back off. I guess we aren't safe!

Bruce

This isn't TSA security procedure. Unfortunately, the OP didn't provide all of the facts, so it's hard to judge exactly what happened. Bottom line here is: there should never be a situation when a passenger must expose himself or herself to a screener. If so, then there is something seriously wrong, and I urge the passenger to submit a written complaint.

As for the so-called breast exam comment made by one of the so-called moderators: give it a rest. The screening methods used were carefully designed to clear the breast area with the back of the hand and in such a manner to minimize contact as much as practical. Calling it a breast exam suggests that screeners either grope women or get some sort of thrill out of performing this procedure. This may be popular on the playground with a bunch of giggling adolescents, but I thought this website was for serious discussion between mature adults who share concerns about airport security measures.

IMO, the problem is that passengers are being intimidated into doing things that make them uncomfortable in order to be allowed to make their flights. I know that I have been asked to do things by TSA agents (take off my scarf, or take off a hoodie when I only have a camisole underneath, or take off my flip-flops, or allow an agent to search my tiny Advil bottle) that I would LOVE to object to -- but I don't, for fear of being told I can't fly that day. It may not be TSA policy, but it happens.

Bart. in ALL seriousness, when we encounter something of this nature what or how do we react so as to clear the problem but not escalate the incident to where we do not fly? Constructive information is what I am looking for. Thanks in advance.

The TSA can have whatever guidelines it wants to in place, but statistically, screeners are going to go past them at times: No system behaves exactly as it was designed in policy. The closer the guidelines are to offense, the more likely going past them will be reported as a big deal. In short, there may be screeners who do get some sort of thrill out of the procedure. In any organization of thousands, I'd be surprised if there weren't.

This is serious discussion.

Let me first tell you the correct procedures for future reference:
Now, what do you do when a screener does not follow the correct procedure? Ask for a supervisor. The screener should stop screening immediately and call for a supervisor. Calmly explain to the supervisor your understanding of the correct procedure and insist that the screening be conducted correctly. A smart supervisor will replace the screener with another one and start the process over again while supervising.

If the supervisor doesn't handle the situation to your satisfaction, ask for a TSA complaint sheet and record the supervisor's name. The best method for submitting the complaint is to turn it over back to the supervisor. However, I understand that many people become skeptical about whether or not the complaint will ever make it beyond that point. The next best method is to mail it in to the airport FSD. Make sure the address is either already pre-printed on the form or ask for the mailing address. Some people suggest that a copy of the letter also be furnished to TSA Director Stone at TSA headquarters; I don't recommend that simply because the FSD is the one who needs to handle the issue first. Mailing it to TSA headquarters tends to be ineffective, especially with the bureaucracy involved. If your intent is to sound off a complaint to Director Stone, then mailing a copy to him will suffice; however, if your intent is to solve problems and correct deficiencies, then you need to get the airport FSD involved.

If any TSA supervisor or screener ever threatens or tries to intimidate you by saying that you may not fly, then ask that the airline ground security coordinator, or GSC, be notified immediately. The GSC is the airline's liaison with TSA and the airport police. The GSC's job is to look after your interests as well as the airline's interests and balance that with security interests. Don't get me wrong, there are times when it is legitimate for a TSA screener to inform a passenger that he or she may not fly; however, those are very specific instances. Asking for a GSC will ensure that an overzealous or incompetent screener or supervisor is not abusing his or her authority.

Hope this is helpful.

rgfloor,
Please see my response to climbermom.

Complaining about a screener who fails to follow correct procedure is legitimate discussion. As you can see in this and in other threads, I've addressed these issues head-on by explaining the correct procedure and offering options passengers may exercise to ensure they are not abused by overzealous or incompetent screeners.

General comments such as "breast exam" or "groping" or "shoe carnival" are nothing more than rhetoric intended to inflame emotions and imply that TSA deliberately condones abusing the public. These type of comments have no place in a serious discussion between adults.

I know that not every airport follows the correct procedures, and I know that there are screeners among our ranks who need to be weeded out for a variety of reasons ranging from poor customer service skills to outright theft. I am also interested in seeing these people removed from our ranks. This is why my recurring theme comes back to submitting written complaints with detailed information including the screener's or supervisor's name.

We can have an overall general philosophical disagreement about airport security screening. I respect that. However, whining about these sort of generalities is no more productive than whining about taxes, weather or aging. These are realities in life; airport screening is a reality in life.

I'm eager to discuss airport security topics, but I'm not interested in the TSA-bashing, name-calling, "gub'mint conspiracy," "the terrorists have won" type of childish discussions that tend to characterize a significant number of the threads in this forum.

Fair enough?

Bart, thanks for your informative response both to the questions raised here and mine about quality control, etc.

It seems to me that all of us should carry copies of TSA policies as well as Bart's posts on how to handle problems with us at all times. As if we need to drag anything else along, but they could come in handy someday.

I do have another mostly rhetroical question: Does anybody at DHS/TSA get that these screenings procedures are not making us any safer?

I'm assuming the answer is: Yes there have been individuals at DHS/TSA who understand what a farce this all is, but they are no longer employed at that agency.

No. I think you are out of bounds. Legitimate discussion is not something you get to define for the forum. The terms you referred to, shoe carnival etc, are not designed to inflame. They are a reaction to enflamement caused by some incredibly stupid policies. Calling the reactions childish may be a nice way remove oneself but it is poor public relations and it demeans legitimate sentiment and opinion. I wouldn't expect anyone imposed upon to artfully "act adult" by hiding their emotions. If anything that doubles the injustice.

For what it is worth, your more emotional replies on these issues have been refreshing. They make you more human to me, more than just a guy who recites policy.

Unnfortunately, we can't. Many of the screening policies and procedures are considered secret. As a result, it is hard to tell, when one is asked to something different, whether it is new policy or "policy" made up on the spot. This has been a source of never ending frustration for FFs.

Who said I was trying to define forum policy? You asked me why I considered some posts unworthy of discussion and I gave you my own personal explanation. But I don't intend to define the rules and standards for this forum; it's not my website nor yours to rule. If you want to post comments that do nothing more than inflame emotions or the equivalent of sticking out one's tongue mumbling nanny-nanny-boo-boo, go right ahead. But please don't call it serious discussion or look for a response from me. I'm looking for something more challenging than that and more worthy of my time.

I get the impression that you want to bait me into a corner so that you can slam me with some wise remark and walk away with a degree of satisfaction. I'll make it easy for you.

You win.

Bart: Here are a little more facts for you. My friend was travelling on standby for his vacation, as he is a purser with a major North American carrier.
When he did not make the flight (it was full) he returned to the counter to try with another carrier, and was subjected to the exact same treatment a second time around -the same night, by the same very rude screener. Tjhis person even wanded his bare legs a couple of time with the pants on the ground!! I mean- Isn,t this a bit much?

I can assure you that there was absolutely NO provocation on his part, precisely because he works for an airline ( and he has a reputation as being one of the most easy-going polite persons around). He knows the drill and was, as I stated, very cooperative from the start. In fact that is why he was afraid of commenting or complaining: since he must go through this sometimes several times a day, he is ( as many flight crews I know) very afraid to cause any type of incident which could bring him difficulties at work in the future.

Thank you for the information about bringing a supervisor etc, but that is precisely the situation he would avoid at all cost for fear of being tagged in any way and encountering further harassment when he is working and on thigh schedule. It is clearly a no win situation, but it still needs to be reported somehow. Where can one write about this, now that it is after the fact and he did not get anybody's name?
Thanx- (edited for clarification)