GUWonder

I've always been opposed to the REAL ID Act, and continue to be ever more opposed to REAL ID with each and every deadline extension of it. Why does my opposition to REAL ID grow while we go from REAL ID deadline extension to extension? For one, more time has meant that I have more often seen the downsides of national ID systems in "small-d representative democracies" -- even in some such countries where possessing ID is legally still not required of the general public. National ID systems groom the public to expect or even stand up for much lower standards of privacy in the interest of some arguable "greater good"; and they also empower the government and others to really become much more empowered to hassle and harass people in more frequent and comprehensive ways; and it enables societies to more easily publicly "other-ize" legally documented immigrants, other foreign nationals, economically marginalized fellow citizens/legal residents, and ethnic/religious/"foreign-origin" minorities and even their descendants.

I would say that travels and dealings with domestic government employees and airlines as a traveler have gotten worse in lock step with growth in the government's obsession with checking traveler ID. An end to REAL ID is more needed than any extension of its deadline, as its end would mark a long-needed change in direction of growing the government's ability to monitor and even control our travels.

Visconti

GU - Good grief! I see you've given this quite a bit of thought. LOL

vanillabean

Good to see someone does.

The US is such an administrative patchwork, different from the vast majority of other western countries.

I live in California, different from most states, where for instance "All undocumented Californians can now obtain state ID under new law”.

In the US, why is it that "only 48 percent of voting-age women have a birth certificate that accurately reflects their current name”?

Or how about someone, "who is the great-granddaughter of a slave, was born in North Carolina by a midwife and lacks a birth certificate. As a result, she cannot obtain a voter photo ID”.

Or "Transgender citizens with identification documents that do not match their gender may encounter obstacles to voting”.

Outside of the US, I am familiar with the national ID that the country of Denmark uses. It has been in place for many years.

TWA884

Let's keep the focus of the discussion on Real ID and save the debate about national ID cards for OMNI/PR.

Thank you,

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

gsoltso

I figured this was coming. Every time we get within a year or two of the implementation date, DHS has consistently pushed it back to allow more time for States to "assimilate the required processes and information necessary" (or some sort of .gov speak to that effect).

onlyairfare

Since we have now gotten along just fine without Real ID, had no disasters due to lack of Real ID, why not just eliminate it? It was just another unfunded government mandate, another example of useless security theater. We currently live close to the Canadian border, so I do find my Enhanced Drivers License (which does pass the "Real ID" test) to be convenient. However I recall that prior to 9/11, I crossed the border in my own car with Washington plates and my regular WA drivers license.

I don't see any necessity for Real ID for domestic travel.

Boggie Dog

Really?

All U.S. States Now Compliant Ahead of REAL ID Deadline

Perhaps the issues are somewhere other than the states.

WillCAD

According to the article, while all 50 states were compliant by September 2020, only 38% of issued licenses were compliant. I can't imagine that number is above 45% yet.

I also seem to recall that some states may be "compliant", but offer the choice to get a compliant or non-compliant license, meaning that some people will continue to have non-compliant licenses for years to come. Even if all states started issuing nothing but compliant licenses today, it would be five years before all of the older, non-compliant licenses expired and were replaced with compliant versions.

I doubt that TSA will enforce the requirement for a RealID compliant license until at least 75% of people nationwide have compliant licenses or non-drivers IDs.

Boggie Dog

Some people may never see a need for a Real ID compliant drivers license or state identification card.

WillCAD

True. But eventually those states offering non-compliant licenses will give in to the feds and stop offering non-compliant licenses. After that, DHS will put the RealID requirement into place for domestic travel again, since the majority of people will have compliant IDs whether they saw the need for them or not.

Of course, it's also possible that DHS may use the TSA requirement for compliant IDs to put pressure on those states to stop issuing non-compliant IDs. Now that all fifty states offer compliant IDs, even though several still offer non-compliant IDs, they could let the RealID requirement slip into place for air travel in 2025 and call it done. There would be a hew and cry from those who stil have non-compliant licenses, but at that point DHS can say truthfully that it's the individual's choice to get a non-compliant ID and the individual must endure the consequences of that decision, which will be a groping, carryon purge, and twenty questions at the checkpoint.

I think the reason for the latest delay is simply to wait until the percentage of people who have compliant IDs is high enough that the gropes and other retaliation don't put so much burden on the TSOs that they rebel against it.

cbn42

The feds can't force states to stop offering non-compliant ID, and many states will not, simply because they issue them to people that are not eligible for REAL ID, such as California with AB 60.

I think you're right that they are simply waiting for enough people to have compliant IDs that it doesn't cause long lines at the checkpoints, but the question is what target are they shooting for? What percentage of the people without REAL ID are:

1. planning to use other form of ID
2. never fly
3. going to be caught off guard.

#3 is the only group to worry about, and I think it's smaller than people think.

vanillabean

Is the assumption that there’s a risk to having people without legal presence aboard domestic planes?

GUWonder

Such people can generally fly with foreign passports just fine. There is no requirement that a foreign passport user have a US visa and/or passport stamp in the passport in order to clear the TSA travel document check.

For over a decade — and at least going into the first couple of months into 2019 — I would often hear Americans in passport control and security screening lines talking about “needing” to get a REAL ID to fly. Sometimes I have interjected into the conversation — freedom of speech and what not — and would toss in my two cents by saying: don’t worry as this thing will get pushed out again, so no rush and no worry; and my how extensions have been repeated, will continue and exemptions will remain for some time and then some (just like there are for people who show up to fly after having their IDs lost/stolen.

cbn42

There is no requirement, but have been reports of nosy TSA agents thumbing through foreign passports and asking questions, and there is no reason they can't retain the passport and call CBP over. Most undocumented people don't want to take this risk. When I was in college, I remember undocumented students preferred to fly from SNA or LGB rather than LAX as they did not have CBP facilities. Also, depending on the country of origin, there is the issue of difficulty in renewing foreign passports in the US after they have expired.

But back on topic, some states want to make sure that undocumented aliens can drive safely and legally, so they will keep issuing non-compliant licenses. The REAL ID Act does not give DHS the ability to require that states only issue compliant ID. And as long as the non-compliant ID is available, many people will keep it out of inertia/laziness.

gsoltso

There may have been a time where the states and territories were lagging behind, but that is not the case now. I just think that will be what they trot out as the reasoning. I think it is becoming a political problem at this point. Noone wants to be the one that places this into effect, and create the challenges that would pop up in the wake of said decision. There is no question where the challenges rest at this point, the states have done their part, the Feds are where things are held up.