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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 2:15 am
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It depends on the kind of coronavirus, as the US doesn’t do this for all or even most coronaviruses.

Originally Posted by Visconti
Of course not. Those objecting are the sort who simply object for the sake of objecting.
I have enough reason to suspect that the above is simply not true. Some who are students of the history of“civilization” and of the history of government know how fear has played out toward pandering to racism and other forms of xenophobia and violate (or otherwise redefine) civil rights and liberties for those traveling across borders, those at ports of entry and even for those who really aren’t migrants but may still be seen by some as being “foreign”, “global/cosmopolitan”, “outsiders”. Some who are or are the descendants of individuals subject to the use of fear about even “foreign diseases” and “diseased/dirty/disgusting/dangerous foreigners” (of some sort or another) to exclude, marginalize or even creatively seize/diminish assets of targeted groups may have a reason to object or be concerned about the (lack of) limits of government authority for reasons that have nothing to do with objecting for the sake of objecting. When was the last time you were concerned that you or someone you considered to be family or almost like family was in or going to end up in an internment camp for reasons of identity rather than solid evidence of the specific (held/restricted) !individual(s) having been a perpetrator of a crime or otherwise a clear and present danger to the public at large for health or whatever excuse government may use? It’s nice to be free of concern and fear about government overstretch, but not everyone has the same luxury ..... because government overstretch of this sort has happened, has been repeated and will continue to repeat itself for at least the foreseeable future ... for some of us even if not for all of us.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 31, 2020 at 2:26 am
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 2:51 am
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Originally Posted by Visconti
After 14 days and the person is no longer a threat to public safety, he/she is free to sue and seek reparation. I'll even donate to his/her litigation fund.
The reliable way of knowing is to take swabs of saliva/mucus from the nose/mouth tract or use a chunk of coughed up phlegm, but doing that before some number of days (say your 14 perhaps) after exposure means it could be missed. So it could be your14 days + the time for the taken samples to be iced and shipped to CDC in Atlanta, + RT-PCR testing time + the time to kick back the findings and have them used.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 7:44 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
It depends on the kind of coronavirus, as the US doesnt do this for all or even most coronaviruses.



I have enough reason to suspect that the above is simply not true. Some who are students of the history ofcivilization and of the history of government know how fear has played out toward pandering to racism and other forms of xenophobia and violate (or otherwise redefine) civil rights and liberties for those traveling across borders, those at ports of entry and even for those who really arent migrants but may still be seen by some as being foreign, global/cosmopolitan, outsiders. Some who are or are the descendants of individuals subject to the use of fear about even foreign diseases and diseased/dirty/disgusting/dangerous foreigners (of some sort or another) to exclude, marginalize or even creatively seize/diminish assets of targeted groups may have a reason to object or be concerned about the (lack of) limits of government authority for reasons that have nothing to do with objecting for the sake of objecting. When was the last time you were concerned that you or someone you considered to be family or almost like family was in or going to end up in an internment camp for reasons of identity rather than solid evidence of the specific (held/restricted) !individual(s) having been a perpetrator of a crime or otherwise a clear and present danger to the public at large for health or whatever excuse government may use? Its nice to be free of concern and fear about government overstretch, but not everyone has the same luxury ..... because government overstretch of this sort has happened, has been repeated and will continue to repeat itself for at least the foreseeable future ... for some of us even if not for all of us.

In this particular case I don't see government overreach or malfeasance being a factor. We know that these 200+/- individuals were evacuated by government from the very heart of the disease area. We know that their detention is limited and not holding them could have far reaching consequences for thousands of others These people have their civil rights but so does everyone else who could be potentially exposed to the virus. The detention is not being done out of the public eye and I doubt any of these people are prohibited from communicating with others.

Government has an absolute mandate to protect the entire populace and a short quarantine certainly fits that mandate. I see no civil rights abuse in this particular case and hope the courts would see it the same way if the question is made.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by looker001
"

"An American who was evacuated from Wuhan was placed in coronavirus quarantine after trying to flee California base"

"The person, who was not identified, has been ordered to stay in quarantine at the March Air Reserve Base near Riverside, California, until the "entire incubation period or until otherwise cleared," Riverside County Public Health said in a statement Thursday. The incubation period will be 14 days."

Will see if that person decides to sue.

That changed. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/healt...day/index.html
I note the linked article says: "were asked to stay for at least three days"

However, it goes on to say: "If any demand to go home during the initial 72-hour monitoring period, health officials will discuss their options and may issue an individual quarantine if they believe the person poses a danger of infecting others, Braden said."


So which is it? Either they are required to stay for 72 hours or not. I don't see that the government gets to change the rules in the middle of the game.

Update:

Americans who were evacuated from the epicenter of the China coronavirus outbreak will be quarantined for 14 days at a U.S. military base to prevent any spread of the infectious disease, federal health authorities said Friday.[/QUOTE]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-rep...es-11580467046
[QUOTE]

Last edited by petaluma1; Jan 31, 2020 at 12:24 pm
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 10:39 am
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They're not sitting in jail cells either. I haven't been to March AFB in years, and since it's not an active-duty base anymore, I doubt if the hospital is in operation. They are probably in BOC (bachelor officer's quarters) or something equivalent, which is basically dorm rooms.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 10:43 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
I note the linked article says: "were asked to stay for at least three days"

However, it goes on to say: "If any demand to go home during the initial 72-hour monitoring period, health officials will discuss their options and may issue an individual quarantine if they believe the person poses a danger of infecting others, Braden said."


So which is it? Either they are required to stay for 72 hours or not. I don't see that the government gets to change the rules in the middle of the game.
That sounds to me like "we ask that you stay for 3 days. You're free to say no, but if you do, then we'll order you to stay for 14 days."
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 11:04 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
I note the linked article says: "were asked to stay for at least three days"

However, it goes on to say: "If any demand to go home during the initial 72-hour monitoring period, health officials will discuss their options and may issue an individual quarantine if they believe the person poses a danger of infecting others, Braden said."


So which is it? Either they are required to stay for 72 hours or not. I don't see that the government gets to change the rules in the middle of the game.
It seems to be conditional, as perhaps someone who lives in an isolated cave by herself/himself in North Dakota and stays off the grid entirely and has their own private plane and landing facility outside the cave would be ok in a way that someone who lives in a crowded apartment building with a tiny apartment with school-going kids in NYC and needs to fly commercially to get home would not be.

It seems like the wiggle room they give themselves is sensible in that any and every security/safety-based mandate used should be conditional and not necessarily exclude consideration for individual circumstances.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 11:56 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
It seems to be conditional, as perhaps someone who lives in an isolated cave by herself/himself in North Dakota and stays off the grid entirely and has their own private plane and landing facility outside the cave would be ok in a way that someone who lives in a crowded apartment building with a tiny apartment with school-going kids in NYC and needs to fly commercially to get home would not be.

It seems like the wiggle room they give themselves is sensible in that any and every security/safety-based mandate used should be conditional and not necessarily exclude consideration for individual circumstances.
Then it should have been a requirement because your scenario 1 is entirely pie-in-the-sky.

Update:

Americans who were evacuated from the epicenter of the China coronavirus outbreak will be quarantined for 14 days at a U.S. military base to prevent any spread of the infectious disease, federal health authorities said Friday.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-rep...es-11580467046

Last edited by petaluma1; Jan 31, 2020 at 12:27 pm
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Then it should have been a requirement because your scenario 1 is entirely pie-in-the-sky.
Its meant to be almost like pie in the sky. But its also to make the point that there are scenarios where one person could possibly be allowed home without any big increase in risk while another could not be.

Or if you want a less pie in the sky scenario, what about the case of a potentially-exposed sovereign head of state/government or such foreign states potentially-exposed diplomat transiting a US airport? Maybe they get to go home when you or I may not.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 12:24 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
I have enough reason to suspect that the above is simply not true. Some who are students of the history of“civilization” and of the history of government know how fear has played out toward pandering to racism and other forms of xenophobia and violate (or otherwise redefine) civil rights and liberties for those traveling across borders, those at ports of entry and even for those who really aren’t migrants but may still be seen by some as being “foreign”, “global/cosmopolitan”, “outsiders”.
This isn't what's happening now. Aside from the necessity to quarantine those returning from Wuhan, there's also a greater objective of dealing with a potential wider issue of an all out outbreak. Banning those from affected areas regardless of ethnicity is not racism or xenophobia. The epicenter appears to be Wuhan, and to the PRC's credit, they're aggressively trying to nib this in the bud. Let's try not to allow possibly infected to escape their net by flying into LAX and/or transiting via HKG, etc.

This has nothing to with China per se or the Chinese. If this virus sprung up in, say, Milan, I'd say ban the Italians and the EU until we have it under control. If the epicenter were Japan, I'd say ban Japan and SE Asia if it spreads there.

Until we bring this thing under control, social issues can take a back seat. We can address them once we have the luxury to do so.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 12:29 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Its meant to be almost like pie in the sky. But its also to make the point that there are scenarios where one person could possibly be allowed home without any big increase in risk while another could not be.

Or if you want a less pie in the sky scenario, what about the case of a potentially-exposed sovereign head of state/government or such foreign states potentially-exposed diplomat transiting a US airport? Maybe they get to go home when you or I may not.
See edited comment above; quarantine has been extended to 14 days for all.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by catocony
That sounds to me like "we ask that you stay for 3 days. You're free to say no, but if you do, then we'll order you to stay for 14 days."
This. The health officials prefer potential patients voluntarily agree to apprehension/quarantine/isolation and not force them to exercise their authority to issue a public health order for apprehension/quarantine/isolation. But if someone does not voluntarily agree then they will issue a public health order.

The 72 hours is used because during promulgation of the regulations that was agreed upon as a reasonable minimum amount of time needed to determine if detention/continued detention is warranted.

If it is indeed determined that this novel coronavirus has an incubation period of well more than 72 hours then you will begin to see quarantine/isolation orders for as long as is needed to ensure the subject does not pose a threat to public health. I am reassured that it is civilians and not politicians, law enforcement or military types that are responsible for these determinations as everything I have read and heard from them indicates to me that they are keenly aware of and loathe to put anyone in custody and certainly no longer than is necessary. I don't see from these public health types any indications of interest in abusing authority to take people into custody.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 1:11 pm
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Originally Posted by catocony
They're not sitting in jail cells either. I haven't been to March AFB in years, and since it's not an active-duty base anymore, I doubt if the hospital is in operation. They are probably in BOC (bachelor officer's quarters) or something equivalent, which is basically dorm rooms.
This news report has an image of the room where a quarantined Rhode Island family is housed at March Air Base:

Rhode Island family held in coronavirus quarantine air base

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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 1:15 pm
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It looks like it hasn't been redecorated since the base shut down in the mid-90s.
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Old Jan 31, 2020 | 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by catocony
It looks like it hasn't been redecorated since the base shut down in the mid-90s.
Maybe not redecorated but certainly not bare walls or a jail cell.

As more is learned about this virus and how it spreads authorities know better how to try keeping the lid on. I continue to have no issues with potentially exposed persons being quarantined for a period of time
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