First the Light Saber, now the Thermal Detonator!
Aug 30, 2019, 9:35 am
#16
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TSA banning another Star Wars related item. I can sort of see their point, since it sorta kinda looks like a grenade (albeit in a cartoonish, Christmas-tree-ornament way), but I think they're opening themselves up to further derision by referring to it as a "replica". <facepalm>
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/t...les/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/t...les/index.html
I just can't wait until we get to see the TSA clerks use their powers to destroy the Death Star. Luke Skywalker ain't got nothin' on our front-line TSA protectors.
Aug 30, 2019, 10:55 pm
#18
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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TSA reverses ban on Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge ‘thermal detonator’ Coke bottle
The Transportation Security Administration has reversed a ban on the “thermal detonator” Coca-Cola bottles sold in Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland and Disney’s Hollywood Studios after a review determined the souvenirs do not pose a security threat to aircraft.
“We have completed our review and instructed our officers to treat these as an oversized liquid,” reads the official TSA statement. “Because these bottles contain liquids larger than 3.4 ounces (100 milliliters), they should be put in checked baggage or emptied to be brought on as carry-on item.”
After the review, TSA determined that full Galaxy’s Edge Coke bottles could be placed in checked baggage and empty bottles could be brought on flights as carry-on items, TSA spokesperson Thomas Kelly said via email Friday.
***
“We have completed our review and instructed our officers to treat these as an oversized liquid,” reads the official TSA statement. “Because these bottles contain liquids larger than 3.4 ounces (100 milliliters), they should be put in checked baggage or emptied to be brought on as carry-on item.”
After the review, TSA determined that full Galaxy’s Edge Coke bottles could be placed in checked baggage and empty bottles could be brought on flights as carry-on items, TSA spokesperson Thomas Kelly said via email Friday.
***
Aug 31, 2019, 7:18 am
#21
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But that diet coke inside still remains as deadly and dangerous as it ever was... ... ...
Aug 31, 2019, 9:48 am
#22
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Aug 31, 2019, 12:28 pm
#23
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I think this was an inexcusable screw-up.
Someone at TSA stupidly applied the 'realistic replica' rule to both carry-on and checked luggage instead of realizing that the LGA rule applied - but only to carry-on items.
Someone at TSA stupidly applied the 'realistic replica' rule to both carry-on and checked luggage instead of realizing that the LGA rule applied - but only to carry-on items.
Aug 31, 2019, 4:18 pm
#24
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TSA has a long history of proving they have no clue what a replica is. Saying "Realistic Replica" is just a waste of words. A replica looks like the genuine article, if not it isn't a replica. TSA has failed in using the "Realistic Replica" standard time and time again. Three cases come to mind, Disney Pirates of the Caribbean Sword, a toy Sock Monkey Pistol, and an embossed gun image on a leather purse.
A Thermal Detonator is simply not WEI even if it is a faithful copy of the movie prop. Seems to me TSA would be better served on identifying real WEI and stop the searches for harmless items.
Aug 31, 2019, 5:00 pm
#25
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I realize there are silly people everywhere who go off half-cocked and panic.
That said, even if someone stands up and threatens a planeload of pax with a light saber or a purse with the image of a gun and some idiot panics, thinking the toy is a real threat, I'm confident that the majority of pax will 1) not be so stupid and 2) they're going to take the idiot down and disarm him before they're going to worry about whether or not the item was a genuine threat.
There's way too much senseless confiscation and distracting TSOs going on. There's nothing remotely lifelike and convincing about some of these things. Yea, 'Q' could make a sock monkey gun that was a real threat - but a proper swab at the checkpoint would reveal whether or not the 2-inch gun actually was a threat.
It also subtly undermines public confidence in TSA. I rarely see anyone anymore trying to justify the potential James Bond-like threats in every unswabbed granola bar or nerf toy. More and more, I see headshakes.
That said, even if someone stands up and threatens a planeload of pax with a light saber or a purse with the image of a gun and some idiot panics, thinking the toy is a real threat, I'm confident that the majority of pax will 1) not be so stupid and 2) they're going to take the idiot down and disarm him before they're going to worry about whether or not the item was a genuine threat.
There's way too much senseless confiscation and distracting TSOs going on. There's nothing remotely lifelike and convincing about some of these things. Yea, 'Q' could make a sock monkey gun that was a real threat - but a proper swab at the checkpoint would reveal whether or not the 2-inch gun actually was a threat.
It also subtly undermines public confidence in TSA. I rarely see anyone anymore trying to justify the potential James Bond-like threats in every unswabbed granola bar or nerf toy. More and more, I see headshakes.
Sep 1, 2019, 4:53 pm
#26
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Nothing on the now-irrelevant Propaganda Village except for this week's puppy post.
Sep 3, 2019, 10:47 am
#27
Join Date: Dec 2010
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https://www.federalregister.gov/d/03-3736/p-25
Weapons include firearms, as well as realistic replicas of firearms that may reasonably be thought to be actual weapons. Such realistic replicas are prohibited because their similarity in appearance to real weapons may allow them to be used to intimidate passengers and flight crew. The screener has the discretion to determine when a replica is so realistic that it should be prohibited. Other toy weapons will be allowed in the sterile areas and cabin.
Explosives. Explosives are substances that explode or cause an explosion. While many explosives may have commercial uses, they clearly could be used to damage an aircraft or against passengers and flight crew members. Examples include dynamite, plastic explosives, blasting caps, fireworks, flares, gunpowder, hand grenades, and ammunition for firearms. Realistic replicas of explosive devices are prohibited for the same reasons that realistic weapons are prohibited: They can be effective in intimidating crew and passengers.
Incendiaries. Incendiaries are devices or materials capable of causing a fire as well as realistic replicas of these devices Examples include gasoline and other fuels, gas torches (including micro-torches and torch lighters), and strike-anywhere matches. Incendiaries also include aerosol cans containing flammable liquids. Although many personal care and toiletry items may come in the form of aerosol cans containing flammable contents, the prohibited items list specifically excludes these items when carried in limited quantities into a sterile area and the cabin of a passenger aircraft. Under these conditions, the materials pose little risk.
Explosives. Explosives are substances that explode or cause an explosion. While many explosives may have commercial uses, they clearly could be used to damage an aircraft or against passengers and flight crew members. Examples include dynamite, plastic explosives, blasting caps, fireworks, flares, gunpowder, hand grenades, and ammunition for firearms. Realistic replicas of explosive devices are prohibited for the same reasons that realistic weapons are prohibited: They can be effective in intimidating crew and passengers.
Incendiaries. Incendiaries are devices or materials capable of causing a fire as well as realistic replicas of these devices Examples include gasoline and other fuels, gas torches (including micro-torches and torch lighters), and strike-anywhere matches. Incendiaries also include aerosol cans containing flammable liquids. Although many personal care and toiletry items may come in the form of aerosol cans containing flammable contents, the prohibited items list specifically excludes these items when carried in limited quantities into a sterile area and the cabin of a passenger aircraft. Under these conditions, the materials pose little risk.
I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to interpret the statutory phrase "weapons, explosive, & incendiary" to include "thing we know is definitely fake and not a real weapon, explosive, or incendiary, though it might look like one if you're sufficiently high".
Not to mention that they could just let it through and call the airline to let them know that it exists, thereby neutering any threat caused by a mere mistaken belief that a squirt gun is an actual AK-47, or a novelty alarm clock is actual TNT. Somehow I think they might actually be embarrassed if they had to call those in to the airlines, and the airlines might get pissed off enough at all the stupid waste of time that they put pressure on TSA to knock it off.
But, alas, the government isn't required to take the best way of solving a problem. (Though it would be nice if strict scrutiny applied to everything...)
Notably, they actually also say this:
II. Permitted Items. For purposes of 49 U.S.C. 40101 et seq. and 49 CFR 1540.111, TSA does not consider the items on the following lists as weapons, explosives, and incendiaries because of medical necessity or because they appear to pose little risk if, as is required, they have passed through screening. Therefore, passengers may carry these items as accessible property or on their person through passenger screening checkpoints and into airport sterile areas and the cabins of passenger aircraft.
B. Toys, Hobby Items, and Other Items Posing Little Risk.
(3) Toy weapons (if not realistic replicas)
B. Toys, Hobby Items, and Other Items Posing Little Risk.
(3) Toy weapons (if not realistic replicas)
Sep 3, 2019, 10:56 am
#28
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
Oh, hm. I just thought of a really nice setup:
Bring on board a duffel bag that has a decoration on the outside, in the style of Magritte, depicting a pipe bomb with the inscribed phrase "Ceci n'est pas une pipe bombe." Maybe put a parody TSA logo on it somewhere as well.
That would be classic First Amendment speech, artistically criticizing government ineptitude, and this "replica" policy in particular.
It would be fascinating to see how they handle it.
ETA: see e.g. https://imgur.com/HTEQZ
Bring on board a duffel bag that has a decoration on the outside, in the style of Magritte, depicting a pipe bomb with the inscribed phrase "Ceci n'est pas une pipe bombe." Maybe put a parody TSA logo on it somewhere as well.
That would be classic First Amendment speech, artistically criticizing government ineptitude, and this "replica" policy in particular.
It would be fascinating to see how they handle it.
ETA: see e.g. https://imgur.com/HTEQZ
Last edited by saizai; Sep 3, 2019 at 11:02 am
Sep 3, 2019, 12:59 pm
#29
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Actually, in one of the very few times the TSA has at least partially obeyed the APA and passed an interpretive rule (which should have been a substantive rule with notice & comment, or regulation, but hey it's something), they specifically defined WEI to include not-actually-WEI replicas.
https://www.federalregister.gov/d/03-3736/p-25
I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to interpret the statutory phrase "weapons, explosive, & incendiary" to include "thing we know is definitely fake and not a real weapon, explosive, or incendiary, though it might look like one if you're sufficiently high".
Not to mention that they could just let it through and call the airline to let them know that it exists, thereby neutering any threat caused by a mere mistaken belief that a squirt gun is an actual AK-47, or a novelty alarm clock is actual TNT. Somehow I think they might actually be embarrassed if they had to call those in to the airlines, and the airlines might get pissed off enough at all the stupid waste of time that they put pressure on TSA to knock it off.
But, alas, the government isn't required to take the best way of solving a problem. (Though it would be nice if strict scrutiny applied to everything...)
Notably, they actually also say this:
Of course, when have they ever been accused of consistency?
https://www.federalregister.gov/d/03-3736/p-25
I think it takes a lot of chutzpah to interpret the statutory phrase "weapons, explosive, & incendiary" to include "thing we know is definitely fake and not a real weapon, explosive, or incendiary, though it might look like one if you're sufficiently high".
Not to mention that they could just let it through and call the airline to let them know that it exists, thereby neutering any threat caused by a mere mistaken belief that a squirt gun is an actual AK-47, or a novelty alarm clock is actual TNT. Somehow I think they might actually be embarrassed if they had to call those in to the airlines, and the airlines might get pissed off enough at all the stupid waste of time that they put pressure on TSA to knock it off.
But, alas, the government isn't required to take the best way of solving a problem. (Though it would be nice if strict scrutiny applied to everything...)
Notably, they actually also say this:
Of course, when have they ever been accused of consistency?
A replica of a weapon is realistic by nature. The definition of replica is clear.
Replica
2: a copy exact in all detailsDNA makes a replica of itselfsailed a replica of the Viking shipbroadly : COPYthis faithful, pathetic replica of a Midwestern suburb— G. F. Kennan
noun
rep·li·ca \ ˈre-pli-kə \Definition of replica
1: an exact reproduction (as of a painting) executed by the original artista replica of this was painted … this year— Constance Strachey2: a copy exact in all detailsDNA makes a replica of itselfsailed a replica of the Viking shipbroadly : COPYthis faithful, pathetic replica of a Midwestern suburb— G. F. Kennan
So a replica of a pistol would look like the real thing, at least on a casual viewing. And I understand why that item would not be permitted in the cabin of the airplane.
A replica of a Star Wars prop weapon is make believe. Even a very well executed copy is not going to harm anyone, unless it is big and heavy or sharp. There is no reason to prohibit such an item. What TSA prohibited at first just makes one shake their head.
Sep 22, 2019, 9:05 am
#30
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
I've filed an update to my 1st Circuit case about this. See attached affidavit & argument.
Thanks for the headsup about it.
(TSA has to date not responded to any of these updates, and in particular has never disputed the accuracy of my factual claims.)
See also:
https://www.tsa.gov/news/2019/08/28/...d-soda-bottles
“The issue concerning Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge-themed soda bottles has recently been brought to our attention by the general public, as these items could reasonably be seen by some as replica hand grenades. We appreciate the concerns being raised, because replica explosives are not permitted in either carry-on or checked bags. We have completed our review, and instructed our officers to treat these as an oversized liquid. Because these bottles contain liquids larger than 3.4 ounces (100 milliliters), they should be put in checked baggage or emptied to be brought on as carry-on item. TSA officers will maintain the discretion to prohibit any item through the screening checkpoint if they believe it poses a security threat.”
"Reasonably" eh?
Specifically denied by TSA.
"Even with a normal bottle cap, this item is still considered a replica and is not allowed in carry-on or checked bags. If our officers discover a replica item during screening and believe it's real, the item will be treated as such until advised otherwise by law enforcement."
Thanks for the headsup about it.
(TSA has to date not responded to any of these updates, and in particular has never disputed the accuracy of my factual claims.)
See also:
https://www.tsa.gov/news/2019/08/28/...d-soda-bottles
“The issue concerning Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge-themed soda bottles has recently been brought to our attention by the general public, as these items could reasonably be seen by some as replica hand grenades. We appreciate the concerns being raised, because replica explosives are not permitted in either carry-on or checked bags. We have completed our review, and instructed our officers to treat these as an oversized liquid. Because these bottles contain liquids larger than 3.4 ounces (100 milliliters), they should be put in checked baggage or emptied to be brought on as carry-on item. TSA officers will maintain the discretion to prohibit any item through the screening checkpoint if they believe it poses a security threat.”
"Reasonably" eh?
Specifically denied by TSA.
"Even with a normal bottle cap, this item is still considered a replica and is not allowed in carry-on or checked bags. If our officers discover a replica item during screening and believe it's real, the item will be treated as such until advised otherwise by law enforcement."
Last edited by saizai; Sep 22, 2019 at 9:11 am