gsoltso

The WTMD also has a random selection element to it. So, you may have been selected by that for additional screening. The Pre program has a random element that will deselect you, and send you to the standard screening process. So, if you actually had Pre on your boarding pass and entered the Pre lane, then you were most likely selected randomly by the WTMD. As far as the alarm, if the machine indicates an alarm, the alarm has to be cleared, regardless of where it is. Sometimes the area can be cleared by visually assessing the alarming area (like a bare forearm), sometimes it has to be cleared by patdown (like on the pocket area of a pair of pants).

petaluma1

If you ever get pulled over again for a "pat down", ask the screener if she is going to be touching your genitals. They will go berserk because they are afraid of that word.

The body scanner alarms on the "groin area" far too often. TSA seems to be convinced that someone will try to sneak explosives onto a plane concealed in their genital area and, by gosh, they are going to catch them when they do, even if they have to sexually assault a million innocent people before they do so.

Boggie Dog

Does a TSA screener in any way touch or feel the genitals of the person getting a pat down?

WillCAD

Wasn't the policy on alarm resolutions changed a year or so ago (via a public announcement, not an SSI change to the SOP manual), to mandate a full-body pat-down on every WBI alarm, eliminating the targeted area pat-down, to reduce "cognitive burden" on screeners?

Boggie Dog

Just follow up questions:

When TSA decides a pat down is called for do they still give an advisement speech about the procedure that is about to happen? What is stated about "sensitive areas"? If certain aspects of the pat down procedure are not disclosed and the screener makes purposeful contact with the genital area of the victim wouldn't that be considered assault?

Getting the truth out of TSA is impossible so this question is directed to those of us that have had recent Whole Body Pat Downs.

gsoltso

I believe that the official response by TSA to that question is something along the lines of - contact with genitals is incidental, if it happens.

The most common description of what happens in the upper inner thigh area, is go up until meeting resistance. That is what I use, and what I have seen most TSOs (here and at other airports) use. I will refer you once again to the video of what to expect during a pat-down. That video gives the best representation of the TSA pat-down in its current configuration as I have seen. It shows how the groin, and upper inner thigh areas are cleared according to proper protocol.

The way we resolve alarms on AIT or WTMD screening, has not changed in a few years. A few years ago, we implemented a standardized pat-down process, and it has not changed very much since then - so *in theory* every pat-down by TSA should be pretty much the same (although YMMV).

The TSO is supposed to advise the passenger of what is about to happen for the pat-down process, ask some questions like "are you able to stand"-"are you sore or sensitive anywhere", and offer some other information like the chance to go to a private screening area if you choose. I am almost certain that giving the spiel in public is not prohibited (including sites like this), but I have been unable to find an actual printed version of the advisements that are to be given, so I can't post my entire set of advisements here.

As I mentioned above, the official position of TSA is that any contact with genitals in incidental. The phrase I most commonly here is "meet resistance" when describing the upper inner thigh clearance.

*TSA did away with the term "whole body pat-down" years ago, it is currently just called a "pat-down".

Boggie Dog

Is the advisement still given before the pat down commences? Can you post the language of the advisement. Can't be SSI if it is stated to the public.

gsoltso

Yes, the advisements are still given prior to the pat-down. As I indicated above, I am almost certain that posting the whole spiel of advisements is probably not prohibited, but I can find no place on any publication by TSA that they are listed. So, I will err on the side of caution (in terms of the possibility of SSI), and state that the advisements tell you what is going to happen in some pretty good level of detail. There are a few questions asked - sore or sensitive, private screening area. If I ever get an approved list of the advisement to publish, I will publish it here and (hopefully) at the Blog.

Boggie Dog

If I am understanding correctly there is now only one pat down. Call it a pat down or whole body pat down (which is factually descriptive) is saying the same thing. If I alarm at the MMW AIT (Whole Body Scanner) on my upper shoulder will I get a full pat down since that is the only kind TSA has?

gsoltso

Ok, you got me, I guess there are technically different kinds of pat-downs. The standard pat-down, and then the ones performed at the AIT (but that is the same pat-down, but only the part that applies to the alarming area). So, there is only one pat-down, and we use parts of it at the AIT (although some will argue that it is multiples based upon semantics). If that made sense?

Boggie Dog

Well the devil is in the details which is why I'm am asking about the advisement given before a pat down. If it doesn't disclose a genital grope then I would consider any such grope an assault. I hope it comes up in a case, either in the system now, or in the future.

WillCAD

Oh, come on now, the difference between patting down a persons entire body and patting down just a shoulder or just an arm is a lot more than just semantics, and if you don't realize that, you really should have. I think any reasonable person who has not been subjected to years of doubletalk brainwashing by TSA would understand that a full-body pat down is not the same thing as a partial or targeted area pat down.

This is exactly the kind of confusing, contradictory crap from TSA we're constantly railing against here, and the worst part about it is, I am certain that you are not being intentionally deceptive and are genuinely trying to answer our questions to the best of your ability, within the unreasonable (and IMHO, un-Constitutional) restrictions placed upon you by your employer.

Boggie Dog

On reflection I just wanted to be sure that there is no misunderstanding, I have no intent or desire to catch anyone in an error of statements. I am honestly trying to understand TSA's checkpoint rules that I need to know in order to best transit a screening.

I know that you have referred to the video of a pat down as a reference point but truthfully that video obscures the process when the inner upper leg is reached and there is no available printed information which tells a passenger exactly what the limits of a pat down are. I don't think that is an oversight on the part of TSA, just a continued pattern of dishonesty from the TSA agency.

I hope that at some point the complete pat down advisement will become available to the public.

petaluma1

Apparently no longer.

https://pulmonaryhypertensionnews.co...bility-issues/

“Our brand of “security” makes everyone miserable, but not safe.”

[email protected]

Both links courtesy of Freedom to Travel USA
https://nypost.com/2019/09/26/tsa-ma...ecurity-right/

gsoltso

I am not being deceptive at all (at least, not intentionally, I guess the result depends on your point of view). There is one pat-down, it encompasses the way we screen \all clothed areas of the body from head to toe. When working at a position that may have a pat-down of an area that generates an alarm (such as the AIT), then we only use the part that applies to the area that needs to be cleared - such as an arm, or a shoulder, or a knee. It is not really doubletalk (trust me, I get enough of that garbage myself), it is most likely just a difference in point of view. If I were teaching you how to do the TSA pat-down, I teach you how to do the entire body. As you are qualified or instructed on other pieces of equipment that may require you to clear specific parts of the body due an alarm, there is no other "pat-down" training, we simply tell you what parts to apply for a resolution to the alarm. I can understand how someone may view that as an attempt at doubletalk, but it is a literal explanation of the process, not an attempt to confuse.

The restrictions are (for the vast majority of the time) understandable. I disagree with some of the things that are covered as SSI - many of the cases where you can sit in front or back of a checkpoint and learn the process through observation are the ones I disagree with the most. If you can sit and videotape it going on, or just sit in front of the checkpoint and watch what happens and learn it, then we should have a video posted online to show the basics of what to expect, for clarity (and from an organizational point of view, for accountability within the workforce) and for better awareness. If we posted a pat down from A-B, and somehow managed to get it on Jimmy Kimmel, it would do wonders for the public understanding of the basics. The resolution processes, and some of the stuff we do as a result of alarms, will probably never be posted - and I understand that (again, I don't always agree with it, but I understand it). If I had my way, we would do videos explaining things that can cause delays, generate alarms (within reason), and the process from the beginning to the end - starting with tips on how to pack bags for a number of reasons - efficiency, best way to pack so that large items that you reasonably expect to alarm the screening, etc. Of course, I am just a TSO from GSO, a part time Blog Team member (although that is still currently in flux), and a regular guy from NC, so I am not privy to all the information that HQ uses to make these decisions. Based upon those facts, I am reasonably confident that I am probably not listed as an authority that the Administrator is going to consult on these items (now or in the future).