why is tsa always at my crotch..seriously
Aug 27, 2019, 12:02 pm
#76
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
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(bolding mine)
You are correct, it is why I finally posted. I am curious if it making younger women spread their legs wider than the footprints, regardless of their height or the thickness of thighs or clothing while older women and all males are not forced to spread their legs wider than the footprints is now SOP across the country or only at PHX. Clearly the PHX FSD knows his people are forcing only women of a certain age range and build to assume an extra wide stance during groping.
It's highly unlikely to be a machine calibration problem because 1) the calibration is supposed to be checked regularly and 2) if that were the case, I'm sure the PHX TSOs would suspect something was amiss and would check the calibration that for some reason only false alarms on the crotches of women of a certain age range and build.
You are correct, it is why I finally posted. I am curious if it making younger women spread their legs wider than the footprints, regardless of their height or the thickness of thighs or clothing while older women and all males are not forced to spread their legs wider than the footprints is now SOP across the country or only at PHX. Clearly the PHX FSD knows his people are forcing only women of a certain age range and build to assume an extra wide stance during groping.
It's highly unlikely to be a machine calibration problem because 1) the calibration is supposed to be checked regularly and 2) if that were the case, I'm sure the PHX TSOs would suspect something was amiss and would check the calibration that for some reason only false alarms on the crotches of women of a certain age range and build.
Aug 27, 2019, 12:07 pm
#77
Join Date: May 2010
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I didn't post this when it happened a month ago. I've seen and experienced some garbage at the hands of TSA, but this was a new one.
PHX, T2. I've cleared and I'm sitting down, facing the NoS and waiting for my travel companion. There is a male TSO standing at the side of the NoS and a female TSO standing behind it, gesturing for people to come through.
An elderly man passes through. An elderly woman passes through, has trouble holding still.
A youngish woman passes through. *beep* She's in shorts, bare legs. Her crotch alerted. OK, I've seen that before.
She assumes the position on the mat with her feet solidly inside the footprints, but the female TSO makes her spread her legs farther apart, so her feet are both completely outside the footprints. She gets a front-back-front-back crotch rub. While she's walking around the pax doing the waistband check, she's pulling the woman's shorts up and giving her a front wedgie. It was clear from her face that she was upset.
Another youngish woman in bicycle style shorts comes through. *beep* Crotch alert. Once again, the female TSO makes her spread her legs wider than the footprints on the mat and gives her the double crotch frisk plus the waistband lift.
My travel companion is next and I see the previous woman say something to her. Guess what? *beep* Once again, she's on the mat (she's a short-legged 4'11") and has her feet on the footprints, but she's told to spread her legs wide enough to put both feet outside the mat footprints. Same crotch frisk.
Next up, a guy who goes through and alarms. By this point, I've noticed that the male TSO is staring very fixedly at the hip areas of the females being frisked. None of the older folks alarmed, but finally one guy alarms. The male TSO never even moves, looks over his shoulder to see who is coming next. The pax starts to stand on the mat, but the female TSO just tells him to take off his baseball cap and he's good to go.
Next up, a young girl in her early teens who...generates a crotch alarm. By this point, the male TSO's fixation is making me uncomfortable and I'm debating whether or not to get my phone out and take a video. He realizes I'm watching him. I hold the eye contact and two pax later, he simply walks away.
Sure, the official line is that this guy isn't a creepy sleaze, nothing's going on. most women of a certain age range and build generate crotch alarms.
But when did it become SOP to force all women to stand with their legs spread wider than the footprints on the mat?
PHX, T2. I've cleared and I'm sitting down, facing the NoS and waiting for my travel companion. There is a male TSO standing at the side of the NoS and a female TSO standing behind it, gesturing for people to come through.
An elderly man passes through. An elderly woman passes through, has trouble holding still.
A youngish woman passes through. *beep* She's in shorts, bare legs. Her crotch alerted. OK, I've seen that before.
She assumes the position on the mat with her feet solidly inside the footprints, but the female TSO makes her spread her legs farther apart, so her feet are both completely outside the footprints. She gets a front-back-front-back crotch rub. While she's walking around the pax doing the waistband check, she's pulling the woman's shorts up and giving her a front wedgie. It was clear from her face that she was upset.
Another youngish woman in bicycle style shorts comes through. *beep* Crotch alert. Once again, the female TSO makes her spread her legs wider than the footprints on the mat and gives her the double crotch frisk plus the waistband lift.
My travel companion is next and I see the previous woman say something to her. Guess what? *beep* Once again, she's on the mat (she's a short-legged 4'11") and has her feet on the footprints, but she's told to spread her legs wide enough to put both feet outside the mat footprints. Same crotch frisk.
Next up, a guy who goes through and alarms. By this point, I've noticed that the male TSO is staring very fixedly at the hip areas of the females being frisked. None of the older folks alarmed, but finally one guy alarms. The male TSO never even moves, looks over his shoulder to see who is coming next. The pax starts to stand on the mat, but the female TSO just tells him to take off his baseball cap and he's good to go.
Next up, a young girl in her early teens who...generates a crotch alarm. By this point, the male TSO's fixation is making me uncomfortable and I'm debating whether or not to get my phone out and take a video. He realizes I'm watching him. I hold the eye contact and two pax later, he simply walks away.
Sure, the official line is that this guy isn't a creepy sleaze, nothing's going on. most women of a certain age range and build generate crotch alarms.
But when did it become SOP to force all women to stand with their legs spread wider than the footprints on the mat?
Aug 27, 2019, 12:20 pm
#78
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: PHX T2 - journalism - real journalism - is needed. A trained observer and reporter watches (as the poster did) for a couple of weeks and publishes in the Arizona Republic will have more effect than all the blog posts and Twitter anecdotes. It may or may not elicit an actual response from TSA that's not boilerplate, but behind the scenes, heads would roll, and the organization would be on notice that they - the watchers - are actually being watched.
Aug 27, 2019, 12:26 pm
#79
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Why do I hate the TSA (from your PM to me)? Let me count the ways: 1. TSA has become the Stanford Prison Experiment on steroids 2. Rules are arbitrary and capricious, i.e., one can take a collapsible tripod but not collapsible trekking poles, scissors less than 3" from fulcrum and circular knitting needles which can act as a garrote but no a cork screw with a 1" blade. 3. According to the DHS OIG: "Furthermore, TSA does not fully evaluate applicants for capability as well as compatibility when hiring new TSOs." TSA retention rate is so awful that they seem to hire anyone who can pass a background check. TSA needs to do psychological testing of potential new hires. 4. TSA's reasoning for different rules at different airports is that they have to keep those terrorists off balance when every thinking person knows that is simply an excuse for ineptness. 5. TSA's focus on passengers is simply a show when the biggest threat is the back door to the airport. I could go on and on and on but will conclude with TSA is an $8 billion per year boondoggle.
Last edited by petaluma1; Aug 27, 2019 at 12:48 pm
Aug 27, 2019, 12:31 pm
#80
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I didn't plan on watching. This was an unusual situation where I cleared and was waiting for a travel companion in a different lane. I thought maybe I had just not noticed that profiling pax based on age/gender/clothing for a forced wider stance is the new norm, but my friend hadn't run into it before and was upset about it. I asked what the pax ahead of her had said to her before she left and she said that female pax warned her that she was about to be 'assaulted'.
Noticing the male screener fixated on the backsides of the females being frisked was truly creepy. That female screener gave every single woman a wedgie.
Noticing the male screener fixated on the backsides of the females being frisked was truly creepy. That female screener gave every single woman a wedgie.
Last edited by chollie; Aug 27, 2019 at 12:53 pm
Aug 27, 2019, 12:46 pm
#81
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I am certain they are because they have a quota of pat downs. What I would like to know is how many of those "pat downs" produce contraband?
Aug 27, 2019, 12:47 pm
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,457
I didn't plan on watching. This was an unusual situation where I cleared and was waiting for a travel companion in a different lane. I thought maybe I had just not noticed that profiling pax based on age/gender/clothing for a forced wider stance is the new norm, but my friend hadn't run into it before and was upset about it. I asked what the pax ahead of her had said to her before she left and she said that female pax warned her that she was about to be 'assaulted'.
Noticing the male screener fixated on the backsides of the females being frisked was truly creepy.
Noticing the male screener fixated on the backsides of the females being frisked was truly creepy.
Aug 27, 2019, 12:51 pm
#83
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I wouldn't be surprised if the quota thing varies from airport to airport and is entirely up to the FSD - or even the STSOs.
IIRC, an FSD can impose more stringent screening but can't relax any aspect of screening. That's aside from any new nonsense being trialed at selected airports but appearing to be directed by HQ.
IIRC, an FSD can impose more stringent screening but can't relax any aspect of screening. That's aside from any new nonsense being trialed at selected airports but appearing to be directed by HQ.
Aug 27, 2019, 1:03 pm
#84
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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I wouldn't be surprised if the quota thing varies from airport to airport and is entirely up to the FSD - or even the STSOs.
IIRC, an FSD can impose more stringent screening but can't relax any aspect of screening. That's aside from any new nonsense being trialed at selected airports but appearing to be directed by HQ.
IIRC, an FSD can impose more stringent screening but can't relax any aspect of screening. That's aside from any new nonsense being trialed at selected airports but appearing to be directed by HQ.
Aug 28, 2019, 9:04 am
#85
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
Why do I hate the TSA (from your PM to me)? Let me count the ways: 1. TSA has become the Stanford Prison Experiment on steroids 2. Rules are arbitrary and capricious, i.e., one can take a collapsible tripod but not collapsible trekking poles, scissors less than 3" from fulcrum and circular knitting needles which can act as a garrote but no a cork screw with a 1" blade. 3. According to the DHS OIG: "Furthermore, TSA does not fully evaluate applicants for capability as well as compatibility when hiring new TSOs." TSA retention rate is so awful that they seem to hire anyone who can pass a background check. TSA needs to do psychological testing of potential new hires. 4. TSA's reasoning for different rules at different airports is that they have to keep those terrorists off balance when every thinking person knows that is simply an excuse for ineptness. 5. TSA's focus on passengers is simply a show when the biggest threat is the back door to the airport. I could go on and on and on but will conclude with TSA is an $8 billion per year boondoggle.
3. People like you and the lack of decent wages force many people to quit.
4. I agree. It's pretty bad. We don't like it either.
5. You're right. But I also don't know which backdoor you're specifically referring to. Do you mean the numerous exits that are accessible by non TSA/ police? Or something else.
Please go on. Also, sorry I couldn't respond earlier, I reached my 5 post count for the day. Does that ever go away?
(bolding mine)
You are correct, it is why I finally posted. I am curious if it making younger women spread their legs wider than the footprints, regardless of their height or the thickness of thighs or clothing while older women and all males are not forced to spread their legs wider than the footprints is now SOP across the country or only at PHX. Clearly the PHX FSD knows his people are forcing only women of a certain age range and build to assume an extra wide stance during groping.
It's highly unlikely to be a machine calibration problem because 1) the calibration is supposed to be checked regularly and 2) if that were the case, I'm sure the PHX TSOs would suspect something was amiss and would check the calibration that for some reason only false alarms on the crotches of women of a certain age range and build.
You are correct, it is why I finally posted. I am curious if it making younger women spread their legs wider than the footprints, regardless of their height or the thickness of thighs or clothing while older women and all males are not forced to spread their legs wider than the footprints is now SOP across the country or only at PHX. Clearly the PHX FSD knows his people are forcing only women of a certain age range and build to assume an extra wide stance during groping.
It's highly unlikely to be a machine calibration problem because 1) the calibration is supposed to be checked regularly and 2) if that were the case, I'm sure the PHX TSOs would suspect something was amiss and would check the calibration that for some reason only false alarms on the crotches of women of a certain age range and build.
On the 2nd point, again you would really need to work there or have worked on the machine to gauge how bad it can be some days. Sure calibrations are supposed to happen on a regular basis but this isn't always a perfect solution. Do you know what happens when even a drop of water/ sweat is on someone or their clothing or something the machine doesn't like (again, I'm not an L3 technician) based off the way certain clothes are made, or bunched up? It goes off. Do I agree with, no. I hate groin alarms.
Last edited by TWA884; Aug 28, 2019 at 9:41 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function. Thank you.
Aug 28, 2019, 9:58 am
#86
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
Very true points. I don't disagree with you, it is a bit odd they're set of rules they implement.
3. People like you and the lack of decent wages force many people to quit.
4. I agree. It's pretty bad. We don't like it either.
5. You're right. But I also don't know which backdoor you're specifically referring to. Do you mean the numerous exits that are accessible by non TSA/ police? Or something else.
Please go on. Also, sorry I couldn't respond earlier, I reached my 5 post count for the day. Does that ever go away?
3. People like you and the lack of decent wages force many people to quit.
4. I agree. It's pretty bad. We don't like it either.
5. You're right. But I also don't know which backdoor you're specifically referring to. Do you mean the numerous exits that are accessible by non TSA/ police? Or something else.
Please go on. Also, sorry I couldn't respond earlier, I reached my 5 post count for the day. Does that ever go away?
I've looked at the wage scales for TSA screeners. I don't think the pay is too low and when benefits are added in it's better than a lot of people can do. I do not like the idea of TSA hiring part timers who get split shifts and what have you to cut down on cost. That is where I think things go wrong.
The backdoor is in regards to airport workers. I've personally sat and watched airport workers entering through employee access doors right next to the passenger checkpoint at DFW. No screening, no WTMD, people bringing roll-aboard baggage, multiple 2 liter bottles of liquids and the list goes on. If some contraband is going to be introduced this is a likely place for it to happen. My personal belief is that everyone, no exceptions, entering the sterile area should be screened.
It very much could be a PHX thing only. As a general response, I only tell PAX to do so when certain conditions are met. However, every airport does have their own set of rules, which to me is crap.
On the 2nd point, again you would really need to work there or have worked on the machine to gauge how bad it can be some days. Sure calibrations are supposed to happen on a regular basis but this isn't always a perfect solution. Do you know what happens when even a drop of water/ sweat is on someone or their clothing or something the machine doesn't like (again, I'm not an L3 technician) based off the way certain clothes are made, or bunched up? It goes off. Do I agree with, no. I hate groin alarms.
On the 2nd point, again you would really need to work there or have worked on the machine to gauge how bad it can be some days. Sure calibrations are supposed to happen on a regular basis but this isn't always a perfect solution. Do you know what happens when even a drop of water/ sweat is on someone or their clothing or something the machine doesn't like (again, I'm not an L3 technician) based off the way certain clothes are made, or bunched up? It goes off. Do I agree with, no. I hate groin alarms.
I have personally had issues with TSA screeners. Won't go in to the details but I'm not one to back down when a person is doing something I think is wrong. The Whole Body Imager has alarmed on my bare skin more than once. Usually my neck or bare arm. To me that indicates that the machine is either too sensitive or just doesn't work as well as claimed. If a bit of sweat alarms that is just ridiculous. Who doesn't sweat? Especially when humping baggage, walking through a terminal and such. TSA relying on these machines is questionable at best.
Aug 28, 2019, 10:22 am
#87
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Moderator's Note - Topic Drift
Folks,
While some natural deviation form the subject matter of the thread is obviously OK, please let's keep the focus of this discussion on enhanced physical screening at TSA airport security checkpoints and not hijack this thread into yet another one debating the security screenings of airport employees or lack thereof.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
While some natural deviation form the subject matter of the thread is obviously OK, please let's keep the focus of this discussion on enhanced physical screening at TSA airport security checkpoints and not hijack this thread into yet another one debating the security screenings of airport employees or lack thereof.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Aug 29, 2019, 6:26 pm
#88
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 6
The posting limit does go away. Use the multi-quote to maximize your responses if you can.
I've looked at the wage scales for TSA screeners. I don't think the pay is too low and when benefits are added in it's better than a lot of people can do. I do not like the idea of TSA hiring part timers who get split shifts and what have you to cut down on cost. That is where I think things go wrong.
The backdoor is in regards to airport workers. I've personally sat and watched airport workers entering through employee access doors right next to the passenger checkpoint at DFW. No screening, no WTMD, people bringing roll-aboard baggage, multiple 2 liter bottles of liquids and the list goes on. If some contraband is going to be introduced this is a likely place for it to happen. My personal belief is that everyone, no exceptions, entering the sterile area should be screened.
I seem to recall that PHX has been the topic of discussion here more than once. Maybe something is amiss at that airport..
I have personally had issues with TSA screeners. Won't go in to the details but I'm not one to back down when a person is doing something I think is wrong. The Whole Body Imager has alarmed on my bare skin more than once. Usually my neck or bare arm. To me that indicates that the machine is either too sensitive or just doesn't work as well as claimed. If a bit of sweat alarms that is just ridiculous. Who doesn't sweat? Especially when humping baggage, walking through a terminal and such. TSA relying on these machines is questionable at best.
I've looked at the wage scales for TSA screeners. I don't think the pay is too low and when benefits are added in it's better than a lot of people can do. I do not like the idea of TSA hiring part timers who get split shifts and what have you to cut down on cost. That is where I think things go wrong.
The backdoor is in regards to airport workers. I've personally sat and watched airport workers entering through employee access doors right next to the passenger checkpoint at DFW. No screening, no WTMD, people bringing roll-aboard baggage, multiple 2 liter bottles of liquids and the list goes on. If some contraband is going to be introduced this is a likely place for it to happen. My personal belief is that everyone, no exceptions, entering the sterile area should be screened.
I seem to recall that PHX has been the topic of discussion here more than once. Maybe something is amiss at that airport..
I have personally had issues with TSA screeners. Won't go in to the details but I'm not one to back down when a person is doing something I think is wrong. The Whole Body Imager has alarmed on my bare skin more than once. Usually my neck or bare arm. To me that indicates that the machine is either too sensitive or just doesn't work as well as claimed. If a bit of sweat alarms that is just ridiculous. Who doesn't sweat? Especially when humping baggage, walking through a terminal and such. TSA relying on these machines is questionable at best.
1. Thank you for clearing that up. I don't recall the last time I joined a forum that had restrictions on that.
2. So I have friends that were TSA, quit or were fired on work at a job as an armed security afficer, but not SPO, that have the same hours but work less hours, as in they might have an 8 hr day but only work a few of those hours, these folks get paid well over what I have ever made working for TSA, like $70k+/yr. That's what I'm referring to. And yes Split Shifts are just miserable for everybody.
3. I'm with you here. As far as I'm aware, the airport in general allows TSA to do screening near or within those areas however, it isn't monitored 24/7 which is why we still have nasty reports of non TSA employees snuggling or stealing from people.
4. I've never been to PHX, hopefully when I do it isn't nearly as bad as that seems. The way folks have described it here makes me think it's ran by very original TSA employees that haven't been able to move forward in life/ technology.
5. Again, this is something I'm 100% with you on. We do thankfully have a policy in place that doesn't require a pat down on bare skin. Also, the sweat thing is very common. As is during a storm with plenty of rain, pay attention to where your wet and where you get patted down via body scanner. It's very correlative to one another. Ankles getting wet from the rain, automatic pat down. Sucks. Really sucks.
Aug 29, 2019, 6:34 pm
#89
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,639
Moderator's Note: Topic Drift
Folks,
Back on topic!
Any future off-topic remarks will be summarily deleted.
If you want to discuss how the public feels about the TSA and its employees or TSA screeners wages' start a new thread!
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Back on topic!
Any future off-topic remarks will be summarily deleted.
If you want to discuss how the public feels about the TSA and its employees or TSA screeners wages' start a new thread!
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Sep 23, 2019, 7:21 am
#90
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Somewhere in the fine print of the Pre agreements, there is a line that reads something to the effect of "Pre does not guarantee expedited screening" and another one that is something along the lines of "there is a random deselection element" that indicates that there can be random trips that you do not get Precheck, even if you are in the program. This is one way that they try and safeguard against someone trying to "game" the system. There is also a random additional screening generator on the WTMDs - most of you have seen or been nominated by it before. I have even been selected randomly during my travels.
Bottom line, there is no guarantee that you will always get expedited screening.
Bottom line, there is no guarantee that you will always get expedited screening.