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Executive orders banning entry to US ... [merged threads]

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Old Jan 25, 17, 8:06 pm
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Angry Executive orders banning entry to US ... [merged threads]

It is looking like an executive order banning entry of visa holders from Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, and Libya is imminent according to various news sources over the last 24 hours - surprised that there isn't yet a thread here to discuss. Seems like this will have major consequences for the Iranian-American and other communities if it indeed goes into full effect; if I'm reading the leaked draft correctly, not only will returning Iranian students and others with legitimate visas be stranded abroad for 30 days effective tomorrow or Friday while the existing vetting procedures are tightened even further, the ban could become indefinite should the government of Iran refuse or be unable to fully cooperate with State and DHS within 60 days in providing additional information that the tightened vetting procedures will require.

A member of my immediate family is an Iranian diversity visa winner with an interview scheduled for late March, so I'm scrambling to figure out what this exactly means for us - what I'm seeing so far is, to say the least, rather concerning for our case. There's a lot of details that still seem unclear at the moment, including whether my CR-1 spouse can accompany me on an upcoming trip outside the country without a risk of being locked out. The last 24 hours have left me emotionally drained trying to figure out the ramifications of what is going on now... anyone else out there directly affected by this?
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Old Jan 25, 17, 8:22 pm
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The immediate thing that comes to mind is "First They Came..." by Pastor Martin Niemoeller.
This won't end well at all.
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Old Jan 25, 17, 8:50 pm
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Have you considered talking to an immigration lawyer?
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Old Jan 25, 17, 8:55 pm
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Old Jan 25, 17, 11:51 pm
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This isn't going to end well....
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Old Jan 26, 17, 3:08 am
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Lots of dual-citizens of US VWP countries may end up on the sacrificial altar if they don't think more about how they are going to do this. Already, for example, Persian Brits, Persian French, Persian Germans and Persian Swedes amongst others have trouble traveling to the US since ESTAs were denied to many such people despite many of these people having never even been in Iran.

I'm also wondering what damage this kind of approach will do to intelligence gathering and sharing.

Are these clowns really going to deny entry to citizens of these countries who already have US immigrant status? It seems so when they say suspend entry for 30 days to non-immigrants and immigrants from such countries unless they have diplomatic visas, NATO visas or C-2/UN visas.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 26, 17 at 3:24 am
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Old Jan 26, 17, 3:54 am
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
The immediate thing that comes to mind is "First They Came..." by Pastor Martin Niemoeller.
This won't end well at all.
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Old Jan 26, 17, 3:58 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Lots of dual-citizens of US VWP countries may end up on the sacrificial altar if they don't think more about how they are going to do this. Already, for example, Persian Brits, Persian French, Persian Germans and Persian Swedes amongst others have trouble traveling to the US since ESTAs were denied to many such people despite many of these people having never even been in Iran.

I'm also wondering what damage this kind of approach will do to intelligence gathering and sharing.

Are these clowns really going to deny entry to citizens of these countries who already have US immigrant status? It seems so when they say suspend entry for 30 days to non-immigrants and immigrants from such countries unless they have diplomatic visas, NATO visas or C-2/UN visas.
Yes because a lot of these visas were issued improperly without the proper due diligence having been done. Keep in mind immigration to the USA is a PRIVILEGE. There are people denied entry on a daily basis who have visas in hand, from all over the world.
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Old Jan 26, 17, 4:16 am
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Originally Posted by TiberiusOnTime View Post
Yes because a lot of these visas were issued improperly without the proper due diligence having been done. Keep in mind immigration to the USA is a PRIVILEGE. There are people denied entry on a daily basis who have visas in hand, from all over the world.
A lot of these visas were issued improperly? The above sounds like Orwellian newspeak when the improperly issued US visas are probably a very small minority of issued US visas at that.

And the vast majority of US visa holders at US ports of entry don't get denied US entry on a daily basis. It seems like the system was mostly working, about as well as it could given "human perfection ain't gonna happen, buddy."

Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 26, 17 at 4:24 am
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Old Jan 26, 17, 11:58 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
A lot of these visas were issued improperly? The above sounds like Orwellian newspeak when the improperly issued US visas are probably a very small minority of issued US visas at that.

And the vast majority of US visa holders at US ports of entry don't get denied US entry on a daily basis.
So what? In 2015 we issued more than 11,400,000 visas (we haven't published the 2016 numbers yet, but it is not less). If even a very small minority, say one quarter of one percent, are issued improperly (and because issuance requires discretion and judgment by consular officials then there most certainly are improperly issued visas) than that "very small minority" is still a very large number, indeed.

That most visa holders are not denied entry does not mean that many visa holders are not denied entry.

What number constitutes "many"? Doesn't matter - just one each was needed for the 2002 shooting at LAX and the 2015 San Bernadino shooting and two for the Boston Marathon bombing. Of course, I readily acknowledge that most terrorist incidents in the US are committed by US citizens, generally US-born citizens. But many of the most "spectacular" or successful attacks in the US have been perpetrated by persons from overseas.
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Old Jan 26, 17, 2:57 pm
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So what?

The "fix" may be disproportionate to the "problem" and cause more problems than it resolves.

Not every problem needs a system change, for some changes make more and worse problems than no change.

Don't foreign-born Iranians in the US have a lower rate of involvement in homicide than US-born European-Americans? Yes, and yet look who is being kept from leaving and returning to the US under this gratuitous move by the Admin.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jan 26, 17 at 3:03 pm
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Old Jan 26, 17, 3:45 pm
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Originally Posted by zitsky View Post
Have you considered talking to an immigration lawyer?
Not yet... I'm afraid that we'd pay a lot to hear that he/she doesn't know anything more than we do until the executive order is signed. Indeed, with all the turnover at State recently and general state of chaos in the federal government, I'm fearful that Embassy Abu Dhabi may not even have its game plan ready yet for March interview appointments.

But many of the most "spectacular" or successful attacks in the US have been perpetrated by persons from overseas.
Fair enough, but many of us in the Persian-American community are trying to figure out "why us" when there are so many other countries in the region that seem to be much more hospitable to violent extremism. Understood that Iran is on the state sponsorship list (though interactions with CBP have left me with the impression that radicalized individuals are way higher on their list of priorities than state sponsors right now...) and doesn't have Podesta Group on retainer or a Trump hotel under construction, but nonetheless Iranian students and families seem like a bizarre place to start in the context of the current security environment...
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Old Jan 26, 17, 4:11 pm
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Originally Posted by lonelycrowd View Post
Not yet... I'm afraid that we'd pay a lot to hear that he/she doesn't know anything more than we do until the executive order is signed. Indeed, with all the turnover at State recently and general state of chaos in the federal government, I'm fearful that Embassy Abu Dhabi may not even have its game plan ready yet for March interview appointments.



Fair enough, but many of us in the Persian-American community are trying to figure out "why us" when there are so many other countries in the region that seem to be much more hospitable to violent extremism. Understood that Iran is on the state sponsorship list (though interactions with CBP have left me with the impression that radicalized individuals are way higher on their list of priorities than state sponsors right now...) and doesn't have Podesta Group on retainer or a Trump hotel under construction, but nonetheless Iranian students and families seem like a bizarre place to start in the context of the current security environment...
I admire a lot of things about Iran. But persecution of homosexuals, and dual citizens makes me hesitate to go there, though I'd like to. Has Iran provided support to North Korea,as the USA believes?
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Old Jan 26, 17, 4:28 pm
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Old Jan 26, 17, 6:20 pm
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We are host family for two Iranian grad students at UCSD. This is their first year in the US. Both came with multiple entry visas good for two years; both went home for the year end holidays. Both are back in the US and in school. There are a large number of Iranian students from their college at varied American universities in STEM programs. Both are very concerned about the implications for themselves and fellow students. I hope it goes well for your family member, lonelycrowd. I agree that it is very concerning.
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