Executive orders banning entry to US ... [merged threads]
Jan 30, 2017, 11:32 am
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
The United States has an obligation to its citizens to vet non-citizens before allowing them into the country. If the current vetting process is weak then steps should be taken to make sure we know who is crossing our border. I don't see any problem with taking those steps.
Jan 30, 2017, 11:48 am
#107
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
The United States has an obligation to its citizens to vet non-citizens before allowing them into the country. If the current vetting process is weak then steps should be taken to make sure we know who is crossing our border. I don't see any problem with taking those steps.
ve. There is no evidence that the current vetting process is weak.
Jan 30, 2017, 11:51 am
#108
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
Jan 30, 2017, 12:21 pm
#109
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
T of people's lives. The policy was implemented in a slipshod way and leaves far more questions than answers (see the rest of this thread for details). <deleted by moderator>
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:24 pm Reason: Going OMNI/PR
Jan 30, 2017, 12:42 pm
#110
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
<deleted by moderator>
That's all well and good but you can't go changing rules overnight or block people from entering who had the correct documentation when boarding their flight and not when landing.
<deleted by moderator>
The US also breached its reciprocal agreements with certain countries. The US has now back tracked on it but for a day or two Dual Canadian citizens who were originally born in one of the listed countries were banned from entry. This is a breach of the agreements signed in NAFTA and the agreement that was signed almost 100 years ago.
You also have to have clear rules. The director of DHS didn't even need the rules were coming in until after the order had been signed.
<deleted by moderator>
That's all well and good but you can't go changing rules overnight or block people from entering who had the correct documentation when boarding their flight and not when landing.
<deleted by moderator>
The US also breached its reciprocal agreements with certain countries. The US has now back tracked on it but for a day or two Dual Canadian citizens who were originally born in one of the listed countries were banned from entry. This is a breach of the agreements signed in NAFTA and the agreement that was signed almost 100 years ago.
You also have to have clear rules. The director of DHS didn't even need the rules were coming in until after the order had been signed.
<deleted by moderator>
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:26 pm Reason: Redact quote of and response to deleted post / Going OMNI/PR
Jan 30, 2017, 12:42 pm
#111
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AA, UA lowly commoner
Posts: 782
<deleted by moderator>
You do realize, don't you, that this ban does not apply to Muslim-majority nations that have actually exported terrorists to the US. such as Saudi Arabia? <deleted by moderator>
You do realize, don't you, that this ban does not apply to Muslim-majority nations that have actually exported terrorists to the US. such as Saudi Arabia? <deleted by moderator>
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:25 pm Reason: Redact quote of deleted post/Going OMNI/PR
Jan 30, 2017, 12:50 pm
#112
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GAI
Programs: TK *G, all statuses that come with Ritz, Amex Plat, Citi Prestige cards
Posts: 364
Interesting post in the Gaurdian popped up about 45 minutes ago:
US Diplomats' Memo Sparks Mutiny Murmurs
I'd say that a massive, highly visible work stoppage among the rank-and-file (some conoffs are actually in a NLRB/FLRA recognized labor union, IIRC) might actually be the best public diplomacy move that State can make at this moment in history.
US Diplomats' Memo Sparks Mutiny Murmurs
I'd say that a massive, highly visible work stoppage among the rank-and-file (some conoffs are actually in a NLRB/FLRA recognized labor union, IIRC) might actually be the best public diplomacy move that State can make at this moment in history.
Jan 30, 2017, 12:57 pm
#113
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The United States has an obligation to its citizens to vet non-citizens before allowing them into the country. If the current vetting process is weak then steps should be taken to make sure we know who is crossing our border. I don't see any problem with taking those steps.
Risk management makes sense. But this is a policy rooted in a kind of risk aversion that is counterproductive on so many levels. It's why I won't support this order.
Jan 30, 2017, 1:02 pm
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
<deleted by moderator>
With no imminent threat, blocking people who are in-transit, who have been approved to travel here, or who are already LAWFUL permanent residents is absolutely inexcusable. To turn away refugees in need is similarly inexcusable. These people do not just show up on our shores unannounced. They have to go through a lengthy screening process. We know who they are. Grandstanding by the president about "extreme vetting" shows a complete lack of understanding of the actual process.
<deleted by moderator>
With no imminent threat, blocking people who are in-transit, who have been approved to travel here, or who are already LAWFUL permanent residents is absolutely inexcusable. To turn away refugees in need is similarly inexcusable. These people do not just show up on our shores unannounced. They have to go through a lengthy screening process. We know who they are. Grandstanding by the president about "extreme vetting" shows a complete lack of understanding of the actual process.
<deleted by moderator>
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:38 pm Reason: Redact quote of and response to deleted post / Going OMNI/PR
Jan 30, 2017, 1:12 pm
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
That's all well and good but you can't go changing rules overnight or block people from entering who had the correct documentation when boarding their flight and not when landing.
<deleted by moderator>
The US also breached its reciprocal agreements with certain countries. The US has now back tracked on it but for a day or two Dual Canadian citizens who were originally born in one of the listed countries were banned from entry. This is a breach of the agreements signed in NAFTA and the agreement that was signed almost 100 years ago.
You also have to have clear rules. The director of DHS didn't even need the rules were coming in until after the order had been signed.
<deleted by moderator>
<deleted by moderator>
The US also breached its reciprocal agreements with certain countries. The US has now back tracked on it but for a day or two Dual Canadian citizens who were originally born in one of the listed countries were banned from entry. This is a breach of the agreements signed in NAFTA and the agreement that was signed almost 100 years ago.
You also have to have clear rules. The director of DHS didn't even need the rules were coming in until after the order had been signed.
<deleted by moderator>
A non-citizen has no right to enter the U.S. even if the rules change at the last second.
<deleted by moderator>
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:39 pm Reason: Going OMNI/PR
Jan 30, 2017, 1:13 pm
#116
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
Yes I do, they screwed up on that point.
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 30, 2017 at 1:20 pm Reason: Conform quoted post to moderator's edit
Jan 30, 2017, 1:34 pm
#117
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,639
Moderator's Note:
3rd Reminder!
Additional posts have been edited and deleted.
Before posting in this thread, please review your message to make sure that it directly pertains to travel and border security and is not political in nature.
The next person to go OMNI/PR in this thread will earn time off from posting on FlyerTalk for a minimum of a week without further warning!
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
This is the Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum.
This is not the place to discuss terrorism and violent extremism in general, policies and actions of the Iranian government or anything that is not directly related to travel security and border protection policy.
Posts that are political in nature belong in OMNI/PR. If you wish to debate issues that do not directly pertain to travel and border security, please do so there (access to OMNI/PR is limited to FlyerTalk members who have been on FT for 180 days and have made 180 posts).
Thank you.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
This is not the place to discuss terrorism and violent extremism in general, policies and actions of the Iranian government or anything that is not directly related to travel security and border protection policy.
Posts that are political in nature belong in OMNI/PR. If you wish to debate issues that do not directly pertain to travel and border security, please do so there (access to OMNI/PR is limited to FlyerTalk members who have been on FT for 180 days and have made 180 posts).
Thank you.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Before posting in this thread, please review your message to make sure that it directly pertains to travel and border security and is not political in nature.
The next person to go OMNI/PR in this thread will earn time off from posting on FlyerTalk for a minimum of a week without further warning!
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Jan 30, 2017, 2:07 pm
#118
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: California. USA
Posts: 1,404
Jan 30, 2017, 2:32 pm
#119
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 58
Lots of dual-citizens of US VWP countries may end up on the sacrificial altar if they don't think more about how they are going to do this. Already, for example, Persian Brits, Persian French, Persian Germans and Persian Swedes amongst others have trouble traveling to the US since ESTAs were denied to many such people despite many of these people having never even been in Iran.
Jan 30, 2017, 2:37 pm
#120
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: GAI
Programs: TK *G, all statuses that come with Ritz, Amex Plat, Citi Prestige cards
Posts: 364
Confirmed through my wife's network that Bloomberg has rescinded a job offer to a talented Persian computer scientist. They said that they'll consider him for future positions in Canada, but don't have anything concrete to offer him at the moment.
Surely, there are now demonstrable, quantifiable damages accruing to some impacted parties on the immigrant visas front that can be considered in court. Is anyone out there (or does anyone know of any news outlet) tracking the status of the various legal challenges out there?
Surely, there are now demonstrable, quantifiable damages accruing to some impacted parties on the immigrant visas front that can be considered in court. Is anyone out there (or does anyone know of any news outlet) tracking the status of the various legal challenges out there?