chollie

Hmmm...well, I guess I witnessed an example of TSA's 'consistent inconsistency'. The pooch went up and down both Pre and regular lines and disappeared. No one was shifted from Pre to the regular lane (or vice versa).

It was kind of like a slow-motion 'wave' at a stadium - heads turned to look as the cutie dog and handler made their way down the lines, toddlers and little kids' hands reaching out to try to pet the dog.

Didn't see anyone trying to take his picture though.

gingersnaps

What was happening at the xrays and AITs?

gingersnaps

What is your reasoning that each of those is not necessary? Isn't each process a reaction to an actual unsuccessful incident?

What screening would you say is necessary or should be taken?

chollie

On that particular day, the Pre lane went to a WTMD and dedicated belt (full Pre experience) and the regular line went to the NoS after the TDC.

The dog was a cutie, and obviously added another layer of security, but it didn't change anyone's wait time (for better or worse - I didn't see the dog alert or anyone get pulled from the line).

Boggie Dog

I may have said that but to be honest I don't remember.

I am not saying that Managed Inclusion has ended but that is what 'Fouled Anchor' Neffenger has been saying. I have benefited from MI a few times but Pre has always shown on my boarding pass not by BDO/Dog selection.

The real issue is the lack of support for Pre by TSA while going gangbusters on trying to enroll more gullible travelers.

chollie

IIRC, I thought there was a 'rule change' a few years ago that potentially allowed under 12's and over 75's to keep shoes and light outerwear, depending on the airport/checkpoint. I'm not sure, but I think it might have been before Pre. I think the problem was that kids and the elderly disproportionately slowed things down when they removed their shoes and then put them back on, often right at the belt. The justification, oddly enough, was that these two age groups generally represented a slightly lower risk. That's a huge departure from hearing that terrorists were known to use children and handicapped people in wheelchairs.

eyecue

I do not

BSBD

The rule allowing those under 12/over 75 to keep shoes and jackets on is 3 years old. PreCheck was started in late 2011.

Boggie Dog

I don't believe that these security steps provide a remarkably better security posture. But they do help create a very large backup at TSA Checkpoints placing all of those people standing in line at risk.

One could also look at the rate of occurrence of any particular style off attack. None for belts that I am aware of. One shoe bomber some billion or so passengers ago. And I guess we have to look back at Bojinka to find an attack that used a liquid as an attack.

I would suggest that the risk of attacks that these steps supposedly reduce is not worth the manpower or cost.

petaluma1

I have it as being 4 years ago, May of 2012 for old folks and kids in October of 2011.

BSBD

IIRC the rule change for 75+ was implemented as a pilot in 4 airports in March of 2012, and was rolled out everywhere else later. I thought it was the following year, but it very well could have been May 2012. Can't remember

I think you're spot-on with the kids' rule change.

WillCAD

The only time I've ever seen a canine at a c/p was in Feb 2015, during Managed Inclusion II, at MCO. The queue post-TDC was altered to create a penalty box in the middle, where the canine and handler were stationed. The rest of the queue was routed around the penalty box, giving the dog plenty of opportunity to sniff passing travelers. Once they passed the dog, travelers then entered a larger queue area where about a dozen ETD machines were set up in a row, each with a TSO manning it. Every traveler had their hands swabbed and tested, and moved on. The rest of the screening was the PreCheck paradigm - shoes, belts, and light outerwear on, laptops inside bags, a pass through the WTMD, and done. I saw one traveler who alarmed the WTMD or had some other issue sent to the AIT, but I doubt that it was mere random selection, since I only saw the one out of several hundred travelers, and only one AIT was in operation.

It was, I must say, the easiest, quickest, least-invasive screening I've had since scope-and-grope started. I was through it in less than ten minutes, despite the volume of travelers being equal to what, in my experience, has caused 30-45 minute waits at that same queue in the past.

Heck, I think it was the best screening experience I've seen since 9/11, although I believe the addition of an ETD canine and the ETD machines were both reasonable, non-invasive improvements over the standard pre-9/11 screening.

To be clear, this was the main queue, not a PreCheck queue. It literally handled half of MCO's traffic (for those who have never been, MCO had two queues, one at each end of the main terminal, each handling half of the airport's 129 gates). There didn't appear to be any separate PreCheck queue that day, since all travelers were essentially being including in PreCheck-style screening.

I had some hope afterward that this would become the new norm, but later I read about MI II, and that it had ended, and on my last trek through MCO the queue was back to normal, with AIT for most, no penalty box, no canine, no ETD swabs, and a 40-minute wait with about the same volume of travelers. Ponderous, man. Ponderous.

They may use that excuse to justify giant, obvious gaps in their screening, but it doesn't gibe with the fact that they're still rabid when it comes to guns (and images of guns), sharps, and 'bludgeoning weapons' like lightsaber canes. These items have never posed any threat to the aircraft themselves; they only pose a danger to the flight crew and passengers, and were banned out of fear that they could be used for hijacking, not out of fear of them bringing down a plane. They're almost useless now, with secured cockpit doors and the "OMG HE'S GONNA KILL US ALL STOMP HIM INTO THE CARPET 9/11 9/11 9/11!!!!!" attitude that most pax bring aboard the plane.

petaluma1

This sounds to me as if TSA was testing the dog. Otherwise, why ETD all the passengers? Perhaps I am wrong, but sniffer dogs don't stand in place to do their job. Part of the "fun" of the job for the dog is moving, going to the target rather than having the target come to the dog.

Boggie Dog

I fail to see the need for both Explosive Sniffer Dog and Explosive Trace Portal. Seems to be a duplication of effort.

BSBD

"TSA" and "duplication of effort" go hand-in-hand. Just one example: automated sterile area exit doors with alarms and mechanisms that prevent pax from entering through the exit, yet they are all manned by a TSO.