JoeBas

And even IF you have that, I've yet to see a bullet that stops a luggage bomb.

Boggie Dog

Yes, a dead mans trigger does seem very likely.

gingersnaps

The dogs are exactly to pre-screen for expidited screening. Managed Inclusion, even with dogs, has been around for years. Managed Includion is because Precheck cannot be justified by the number of approved users.

chollie

Has anyone ever actually witnessed people in the regular line who have passed the 'smell test' being moved to the Pre lane (assuming it was open)?

If there are no Pre lanes, then the only point to the dogs is to avoid a Brussels scenario.

BSBD

Yes, I saw it once at BNA. Haven't seen very many dogs there since, so I doubt there's any effort to use dogs to prevent a Brussels-style attack.

chollie

I'm suggesting that if there are no Pre lanes, then there's no point to managed inclusion, so if the doggies are there, it must be to prevent another Brussels-style attack. It is certainly much faster than swabbing and testing every single pax.

I've seen the dog once when Pre was open and the lines were long. The pooch sniffed both lines, but no one was shifted from the regular line to Pre. That's only one datapoint, of course.

I'm wondering, because I've seen TSA statements suggesting that the sniffer dogs could really speed things up at the checkpoint through 'managed inclusion', but I haven't actually seen that happen yet or read of it happening. It had no effect on the lines the day I saw the dog when Pre was actually available.

BSBD

I fly weekly, through multiple domestic airports. I have seen absolutely no evidence that there's any additional effort, using dogs or armed police officers, to prevent a Brussels-style attack. IOW, I don't see what you're suggesting is taking place.

What I have seen is a massive scrutiny of carry-on bags at the x-Ray machines and post-x-Ray, with subsequent delays.

As is typical for TSA, they focus on prevention of past threats or correction of criticism, not on current threats.

Boggie Dog

Neffenger (needs a nickname) has stated to Congress that Managed Inclusion was ended. Only vetted/paid Pre Check flyers in the fast lane.

Now we all know the above is not true but it is what TSA has been saying.

chollie

?? TSA says they've got sniffer dogs and they're going to be getting more. I'm taking their word for it. They don't have a lot of dogs right now, so it doesn't surprise me that I've rarely seen them.

Somehow I don't think I'm getting my point across to you - and I acknowledge that's apparently my fault.

TSA says they have dogs and will be getting more.

TSA says managed inclusion is dead. TSA says the dogs will speed up security.

How will the dogs speed up security if they are sniffing pax in a terminal with no Pre line? How will the dogs speed up security if they sniff both Pre and regular lines (what I witnessed) and go away?

If the dogs aren't being used to speed up security (no Pre lanes or they sniff everybody but no one appears to pass the sniff test - no one gets 'expedited'), then what are they being used for in those circumstances?

I can only think of two things.

1) it's MUCH faster than swabbing/testing everyone, so it's an added 'layer', but it doesn't speed anything up.

2) it's a way of preventing a Brussels-style attack by eliminating the possibility of explosives in the packed lines.

If you can think of another possible reason for using the dogs while not expediting any pax, I'm all ears! Seriously!

Boggie Dog

Perhaps TSA using sniffer dogs is admitting that the expensive and slow Whole Body Imager doesn't actually do much.

chollie

Yeah, although I've never understood why sniffer dogs should be used to boost people to Pre.

They could still have a knife in their shoes or something hinky with their electronics or LGAs - or a non-metallic threat on their person. It also kind of makes you wonder what's the point of the Pre background check anyway, if it's that easy to clear people for Pre on the spot without the check.

BSBD

My apologies if we're not communicating well. Here's what I'm trying to say:

I do not believe that TSA is making ANY effort to prevent a land-side attack, like the Brussels attack. It's not their job. Their job is to try to prevent damage to airside and aircraft. It's not about the passengers and other airport patrons (which were the target of the Brussels attackers), it's about the "essential infrastructure."

The dogs are not there to stop Brussels-style attackers. They are there to add a sense of legitimacy to random inclusion (aka Managed Inclusion).

chollie

OK, got it.

gingersnaps

Washingtonpost Sep. 2015

"TSA has kept in place another program (Managed Inclusion I) that allows travelers to use the PreCheck line as long as they have been pre-screened by TSA canines."

petaluma1

Even AskTSA admits that people are assigned to the non-existent precheck lanes based on vetting before they even get to the airport.

Was it you, Boggie Dog, that said that people over 70 are also regularly given precheck?