Long TSA Lines [merged threads]
Mar 18, 2016 | 1:11 pm
#121
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How can the TSA be unprepared for the extra travelers? They would have all of the secure flight data for people flying that day. Spring break happens every year. The article said that they had 4,000 more people than normal. The TSA would have known that because I find it hard to believe the airlines are flying with that many empty seats regularly.
The article also said people were flying with prohibited items like oversized liquids, pocket knives, and scissors. That's an easy problem to solve. Relax the liquid restrictions so the regular size tube of toothpaste (that fits inside a quart bag anyway) is no longer prohibited. Allow pocket knives to be carried on board because they aren't a threat to the plane. Maybe they would do better on the red team tests if they weren't focused on the wrong things.
The TSA needs to learn how to work more efficiently. Whenever I fly in Europe, the checkpoints operate much quicker and they tend to have half of the people working that a TSA checkpoint uses. If the body scanners are the hold up, use them as secondary screening like they were supposed to be used.
The article also said people were flying with prohibited items like oversized liquids, pocket knives, and scissors. That's an easy problem to solve. Relax the liquid restrictions so the regular size tube of toothpaste (that fits inside a quart bag anyway) is no longer prohibited. Allow pocket knives to be carried on board because they aren't a threat to the plane. Maybe they would do better on the red team tests if they weren't focused on the wrong things.
The TSA needs to learn how to work more efficiently. Whenever I fly in Europe, the checkpoints operate much quicker and they tend to have half of the people working that a TSA checkpoint uses. If the body scanners are the hold up, use them as secondary screening like they were supposed to be used.
TSA knew, knows and is using this "claimed" higher travel load to help increase the TSA budget. TSA has known for months what travel would look like at any point in the future.
Mar 18, 2016 | 1:42 pm
#122
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I'm wondering what excuse AskTSA is going to use for the long lines after spring break is over.
Mar 18, 2016 | 2:31 pm
#124
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Dallas conference warned of summer travel crisis brewing if TSA isnt fixed
Excerpts
Excerpts
<snip>
I do have sympathy for the TSA. Theyre given a set of rules theyre supposed to follow said Mark Duebner, director of Dallas Love Field. Until the rules that really get to the heart of doing screening if theres not some more rationality put into the process, its not going to get any better. You cant keep throwing people at the problem.
<snip>
Part of the solution, the airport directors agreed, lies in better utilization of technology.
<snip>
The interactions between a human and a traveler is going to continue to shrink to where theres almost no interaction, Duebner said, referring to broader technology shifts affecting airports. Theyre going to get to the airport, wave their phone to get into the parking garage, wave their phone to check their bag, wave their phone to get through TSA and then self-board.
I do have sympathy for the TSA. Theyre given a set of rules theyre supposed to follow said Mark Duebner, director of Dallas Love Field. Until the rules that really get to the heart of doing screening if theres not some more rationality put into the process, its not going to get any better. You cant keep throwing people at the problem.
<snip>
Part of the solution, the airport directors agreed, lies in better utilization of technology.
<snip>
The interactions between a human and a traveler is going to continue to shrink to where theres almost no interaction, Duebner said, referring to broader technology shifts affecting airports. Theyre going to get to the airport, wave their phone to get into the parking garage, wave their phone to check their bag, wave their phone to get through TSA and then self-board.
Mar 18, 2016 | 2:44 pm
#125
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Mar 18, 2016 | 3:04 pm
#126
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I also believe that an effort should be made to bring back the Explosive Trace Portals. They detect explosives which neither the WTMD or WBI can do.
Mar 18, 2016 | 3:37 pm
#127
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???
1) Where did you get the idea that the poorly prepared pax causing delays are Pre pax?
2) There is no way for any pax, Pre or not, to adequately prepare for screening because there's no way to know the rules until you get to the checkpoint. Anyone who has ever carried an item through dozens of checkpoints (like a tiny bottle of prescription nitro pills or the drawcord from a lady's sweat pants) and then gotten it confiscated knows the experience can be completely unpredictable.
Who knew that the drawstring from a pair of women's sweats could be subject to confiscation?
3) When an airport has one lane out of six open and 2 hour waits in line, it might be time for a couple non-working LTSOs and STSOs to put down their cellphones and open up a new lane. That's the real cause of the delays - non-working staff, not insufficient numbers of staff.
1) Where did you get the idea that the poorly prepared pax causing delays are Pre pax?
2) There is no way for any pax, Pre or not, to adequately prepare for screening because there's no way to know the rules until you get to the checkpoint. Anyone who has ever carried an item through dozens of checkpoints (like a tiny bottle of prescription nitro pills or the drawcord from a lady's sweat pants) and then gotten it confiscated knows the experience can be completely unpredictable.
Who knew that the drawstring from a pair of women's sweats could be subject to confiscation?
3) When an airport has one lane out of six open and 2 hour waits in line, it might be time for a couple non-working LTSOs and STSOs to put down their cellphones and open up a new lane. That's the real cause of the delays - non-working staff, not insufficient numbers of staff.
2) The rules are published, sometimes you get away with things and sometimes you don't. Simplify it, just follow the rules.
3) I don't know where you are talking about... I haven't seen anything like that in any of my TSA experiences in my memory, which is too many to count, already at 37 in 2016.
Mar 18, 2016 | 4:05 pm
#128
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The problem with Pre is that it is even more random and unpredictable than the regular lanes, so it doesn't surprise me if Pre pax are confused about what is expected of them.
The only published rule that is consistent is 'screener discretion'. You may openly take an item through 50 times and then get it confiscated on the 51st trip (which is what happened with my nitro pills).
Plenty of photos and detailed information on the length of Pre and regular lines, the number of stations closed vs. open, and the closure of Pre lanes. You could look at @AskTSA's twitter for lots of examples. They acknowledge the problems and say that they are addressing them. Presumably you didn't fly through ATL - the airport manager recently (and publicly) told TSA that if something isn't done to address the issue, ATL would consider getting rid of TSA in favor of private security that could do a better job.
The only published rule that is consistent is 'screener discretion'. You may openly take an item through 50 times and then get it confiscated on the 51st trip (which is what happened with my nitro pills).
Plenty of photos and detailed information on the length of Pre and regular lines, the number of stations closed vs. open, and the closure of Pre lanes. You could look at @AskTSA's twitter for lots of examples. They acknowledge the problems and say that they are addressing them. Presumably you didn't fly through ATL - the airport manager recently (and publicly) told TSA that if something isn't done to address the issue, ATL would consider getting rid of TSA in favor of private security that could do a better job.
Mar 18, 2016 | 6:29 pm
#129
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Got a nasty surprise at DEN today. The A Bridge checkpoint now locks up and goes home in the afternoon. The two main checkpoints on Level 5 had nearly hour long waits after it closed.
Mar 18, 2016 | 10:32 pm
#130
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unted but it's always seemed like they;ve got about the same number of clerks working the Pre lanes.People who are dumped into Pre suddenly find themselves in a place where they're supposed to NOT be doing things that are required in the regular lanes. Since they have no idea what the difference is -- or (often) even the fact that they're in a special lane it's no wonder that they slow things down.
Mar 19, 2016 | 6:58 am
#131
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1) Today even with 2 TSA agents telling everyone to get their cell phones out of their pockets, in the TSA Pre line, 4 of the 7 people in front of me went through with them on them. I would say on a good day for me, I witness only 3 people get sent back out of the metal detector while I wait in line, this adds a lot of time. It is very rare for me to have someone ready to set everything on the conveyor and wait for approval to go through the metal detector. So there are TSA pre that are poorly prepared, and causing delays.
2) The rules are published, sometimes you get away with things and sometimes you don't. Simplify it, just follow the rules.
3) I don't know where you are talking about... I haven't seen anything like that in any of my TSA experiences in my memory, which is too many to count, already at 37 in 2016.
2) The rules are published, sometimes you get away with things and sometimes you don't. Simplify it, just follow the rules.
3) I don't know where you are talking about... I haven't seen anything like that in any of my TSA experiences in my memory, which is too many to count, already at 37 in 2016.
Mar 19, 2016 | 12:29 pm
#132
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1) Today even with 2 TSA agents telling everyone to get their cell phones out of their pockets, in the TSA Pre line, 4 of the 7 people in front of me went through with them on them. I would say on a good day for me, I witness only 3 people get sent back out of the metal detector while I wait in line, this adds a lot of time. It is very rare for me to have someone ready to set everything on the conveyor and wait for approval to go through the metal detector. So there are TSA pre that are poorly prepared, and causing delays.
Mar 21, 2016 | 8:19 am
#133
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Blaming the victim shows a profound disconnect between the TSA and just about the rest of the world.
"You're suffering in this intolerably long line because you had the indecency to travel when we were unprepared and understaffed." That is not an acceptable answer.
A number of you have pointed out the passenger "preparedness" is often cited. This is the same problem. The TSA changes its rules base on who is working that day, and its rules are all banned from public knowledge. We're not talking about passengers taking flame throwers on to airplanes; it's usually some spat about the difference between 3.5 ounces and 100 mL or some other issue that is of no security-related concern. It's about rules; not safety.
And if they're so short-staffed, why are they still running the discredited "SPOT" program?
I would like to see the following occur:
1. Legislators and airlines need to get the courage to speak up. So many have just shrugged off the TSA, not wishing to appear "soft" on terror. Those days are over. the TSA is paralyzing an already troubled air transportation system.
2. The "thousands standing around" need to be explained. What is their role, and why are they there? I think it's a reasonable question. If the checkpoint is backed up well into the terminal, why are there chitchatting and texting TSA staff? Are they being paid? If so, why? It takes three staff to run a PreCheck line (Travel Document Inspector, metal detector, and x-ray). There are usually far more than three staff just standing around.
3. SPOT has been discredited by multiple reports and analyses. Send behavior detection officers back to screening.
4. The correct answer from the TSA leadership is, "we're working on it." They must change their tone. Instead of berating passengers for flying, the TSA needs to start thinking about solutions. They are accountable to nobody, and they're resting on a legacy of fear to remain viable. They are a national embarrassment, and continue to blame the public--not themselves--for their failures.
5. There has to be some threat of consequences if the TSA does not clean up its act. I do not know enough about politics of government agencies, but they need something held over them.
"You're suffering in this intolerably long line because you had the indecency to travel when we were unprepared and understaffed." That is not an acceptable answer.
A number of you have pointed out the passenger "preparedness" is often cited. This is the same problem. The TSA changes its rules base on who is working that day, and its rules are all banned from public knowledge. We're not talking about passengers taking flame throwers on to airplanes; it's usually some spat about the difference between 3.5 ounces and 100 mL or some other issue that is of no security-related concern. It's about rules; not safety.
And if they're so short-staffed, why are they still running the discredited "SPOT" program?
I would like to see the following occur:
1. Legislators and airlines need to get the courage to speak up. So many have just shrugged off the TSA, not wishing to appear "soft" on terror. Those days are over. the TSA is paralyzing an already troubled air transportation system.
2. The "thousands standing around" need to be explained. What is their role, and why are they there? I think it's a reasonable question. If the checkpoint is backed up well into the terminal, why are there chitchatting and texting TSA staff? Are they being paid? If so, why? It takes three staff to run a PreCheck line (Travel Document Inspector, metal detector, and x-ray). There are usually far more than three staff just standing around.
3. SPOT has been discredited by multiple reports and analyses. Send behavior detection officers back to screening.
4. The correct answer from the TSA leadership is, "we're working on it." They must change their tone. Instead of berating passengers for flying, the TSA needs to start thinking about solutions. They are accountable to nobody, and they're resting on a legacy of fear to remain viable. They are a national embarrassment, and continue to blame the public--not themselves--for their failures.
5. There has to be some threat of consequences if the TSA does not clean up its act. I do not know enough about politics of government agencies, but they need something held over them.
Mar 21, 2016 | 8:25 am
#134
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2)
You've way understaffed a Pre lane. You need:
1 Pre lane monitor (at start of Pre lane)
2 TDC
3 "moat dragon"
4 belt monitor
5 xray screener
6 WTMD monitor
7 male 'groper'
8 female 'groper'
9 bag searcher
10 tub stacker
11 swabber
12 spotnik/BDO
13 LTSO (at least one)
14 STSO (at least one)
That is, of course, minimum staffing. No TSOs are assigned two functions at the same time, so the individual who stands and blocks an already roped-off WTMD can't help stack tubs. I've lost count of how many non-working LTSOs and STSOs actually are assigned to each checkpoint, since they are usually off to one side gawking at hot pax, playing with their cellphones and engaging in personal conversations while ignoring what's going on around them.
Outside the US, I generally see less than half that number, all of whom clearly have assigned duties and who are working most of the time. I never see groups of non-working security staff standing around chatting and playing with their cell phones outside the US.
You've way understaffed a Pre lane. You need:
1 Pre lane monitor (at start of Pre lane)
2 TDC
3 "moat dragon"
4 belt monitor
5 xray screener
6 WTMD monitor
7 male 'groper'
8 female 'groper'
9 bag searcher
10 tub stacker
11 swabber
12 spotnik/BDO
13 LTSO (at least one)
14 STSO (at least one)
That is, of course, minimum staffing. No TSOs are assigned two functions at the same time, so the individual who stands and blocks an already roped-off WTMD can't help stack tubs. I've lost count of how many non-working LTSOs and STSOs actually are assigned to each checkpoint, since they are usually off to one side gawking at hot pax, playing with their cellphones and engaging in personal conversations while ignoring what's going on around them.
Outside the US, I generally see less than half that number, all of whom clearly have assigned duties and who are working most of the time. I never see groups of non-working security staff standing around chatting and playing with their cell phones outside the US.
Last edited by chollie; Mar 21, 2016 at 8:30 am
Mar 21, 2016 | 11:09 am
#135
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2)
You've way understaffed a Pre lane. You need:
1 Pre lane monitor (at start of Pre lane)
2 TDC
3 "moat dragon"
4 belt monitor
5 xray screener
6 WTMD monitor
7 male 'groper'
8 female 'groper'
9 bag searcher
10 tub stacker
11 swabber
12 spotnik/BDO
13 LTSO (at least one)
14 STSO (at least one)
That is, of course, minimum staffing. No TSOs are assigned two functions at the same time, so the individual who stands and blocks an already roped-off WTMD can't help stack tubs. I've lost count of how many non-working LTSOs and STSOs actually are assigned to each checkpoint, since they are usually off to one side gawking at hot pax, playing with their cellphones and engaging in personal conversations while ignoring what's going on around them.
Outside the US, I generally see less than half that number, all of whom clearly have assigned duties and who are working most of the time. I never see groups of non-working security staff standing around chatting and playing with their cell phones outside the US.
You've way understaffed a Pre lane. You need:
1 Pre lane monitor (at start of Pre lane)
2 TDC
3 "moat dragon"
4 belt monitor
5 xray screener
6 WTMD monitor
7 male 'groper'
8 female 'groper'
9 bag searcher
10 tub stacker
11 swabber
12 spotnik/BDO
13 LTSO (at least one)
14 STSO (at least one)
That is, of course, minimum staffing. No TSOs are assigned two functions at the same time, so the individual who stands and blocks an already roped-off WTMD can't help stack tubs. I've lost count of how many non-working LTSOs and STSOs actually are assigned to each checkpoint, since they are usually off to one side gawking at hot pax, playing with their cellphones and engaging in personal conversations while ignoring what's going on around them.
Outside the US, I generally see less than half that number, all of whom clearly have assigned duties and who are working most of the time. I never see groups of non-working security staff standing around chatting and playing with their cell phones outside the US.
TSA is so mired in procedure that they can't be progressive in restructuring policies to me more efficient.
Not to mention the federal jobs program for the unemployable that is actually what TSA is all about.