Your Worst POE experiences outside of the US
Dec 12, 2015, 7:13 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Had this agent just asked to see the itinerary, there wouldn't have been any issue. She kept asking completely unrelated and unneeded questions and never asked to see anything that would have been of any use given the answers given. There is no logical reason AT ALL to ask about money and bank accounts when the stated length of entry is 5 hours and you're holding a boarding pass for the connecting flight.
Clearly, the other 10 agents I've dealt with over the years when doing the EXACT same thing don't see it as "unusual".
Dec 13, 2015, 1:02 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 107
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10434955
..........including NZ citizens:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10600019
http://temukatangata.org.nz/groups/m...MtUQJMJo3MioyT
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11171475 & http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/seized...axzz3uBLIoK44:
The seizure of a backpacker's electronic equipment highlights the almost "unlimited rights" Customs has to search travellers arriving in New Zealand, according to a legal expert.
Sam Blackman flew into Auckland International Airport this morning from London, via San Francisco, and had his smartphones, iPad, external hard drive and a laptop confiscated by Customs officials - with no reason given as to why.
Customs says under Section 151 of the Customs and Excise Act they can search anyone they believe they have "reasonable cause" to suspect is carrying illegal material, though would not say how they define "reasonable cause".
"I think they've got unlimited rights to do what they want, as long as you’re on the outside of Customs," says Dr Hodge.
"I don't think there's many legal limits, because when you're entering the country you’re not yet in the country – you're entering on the terms of the Customs legislation…[which is] a very broad power to search anything you're carrying, anything you’re bringing in."
Sam Blackman flew into Auckland International Airport this morning from London, via San Francisco, and had his smartphones, iPad, external hard drive and a laptop confiscated by Customs officials - with no reason given as to why.
Customs says under Section 151 of the Customs and Excise Act they can search anyone they believe they have "reasonable cause" to suspect is carrying illegal material, though would not say how they define "reasonable cause".
"I think they've got unlimited rights to do what they want, as long as you’re on the outside of Customs," says Dr Hodge.
"I don't think there's many legal limits, because when you're entering the country you’re not yet in the country – you're entering on the terms of the Customs legislation…[which is] a very broad power to search anything you're carrying, anything you’re bringing in."
Dec 13, 2015, 2:07 am
#18
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Dec 13, 2015, 9:41 am
#19
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
Except every single other time I've done this (2 entries per year with ~24 hours between for a number of years), there has been no issue whatsoever and the agent has let me through within 30 seconds.
Had this agent just asked to see the itinerary, there wouldn't have been any issue. She kept asking completely unrelated and unneeded questions and never asked to see anything that would have been of any use given the answers given. There is no logical reason AT ALL to ask about money and bank accounts when the stated length of entry is 5 hours and you're holding a boarding pass for the connecting flight.
Clearly, the other 10 agents I've dealt with over the years when doing the EXACT same thing don't see it as "unusual".
Had this agent just asked to see the itinerary, there wouldn't have been any issue. She kept asking completely unrelated and unneeded questions and never asked to see anything that would have been of any use given the answers given. There is no logical reason AT ALL to ask about money and bank accounts when the stated length of entry is 5 hours and you're holding a boarding pass for the connecting flight.
Clearly, the other 10 agents I've dealt with over the years when doing the EXACT same thing don't see it as "unusual".
At face value, your trip certainly looks unusual enough that I could see why an agent would consider asking additional questions. You are dropping a bag in London, then head to Dubai for a few hours, then head back to London to collect the bag. Yeah I don't know, sounds a bit weird. It's not the first or last time someone one a points run got questioned because it's an unusual travel pattern
I can see how that wasn't a great experience for you but in reality, nothing really happened to you and it certainly doesn't compare to some of the other experiences people have discussed.
Dec 14, 2015, 6:11 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
Dec 14, 2015, 6:19 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HEL
Programs: lots of shiny metal cards
Posts: 14,107
) which allowed for only a few hours' stay in Japan, the authorities were baffled when the first pax on these tix started to arrive and declared their stay to be 5-6-7 (whatever) hours. After a week or so when they heard "Alitalia mistake fare" they just waved people thru 
Dec 14, 2015, 6:34 am
#22
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,095
Agents aren't robots, there could be many factors involved, motivation, experience, available intelligence.
At face value, your trip certainly looks unusual enough that I could see why an agent would consider asking additional questions. You are dropping a bag in London, then head to Dubai for a few hours, then head back to London to collect the bag. Yeah I don't know, sounds a bit weird. It's not the first or last time someone one a points run got questioned because it's an unusual travel pattern.
At face value, your trip certainly looks unusual enough that I could see why an agent would consider asking additional questions. You are dropping a bag in London, then head to Dubai for a few hours, then head back to London to collect the bag. Yeah I don't know, sounds a bit weird. It's not the first or last time someone one a points run got questioned because it's an unusual travel pattern.
I have traveled on a huge number of extremely unusual routings I've traveled, sometimes even dozens of times, often with just 4-24 hour visits being rather common on some of these itineraries. And yet of the few times where immigration or customs even cared about spending a few extra seconds or minutes on me, it's almost always been on the most straight-forward of routings.
If they have had issues with me, immigration and customs in the US, Canada, Australia, UK, and New Zealand have only made it a matter on some of the least convoluted of routings that I've flown.
Dec 14, 2015, 9:17 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
That's good for you. And there is a big difference between thinking someone is a criminal and not ruling the possibility out. The latter merely means you will take measures to mitigate that risk, such as questioning an individual, verifying their information.
Your entire posting on these forums however seems to be based on the premise that no-one ever is a criminal or terrorist and thus that should be the basic premise of border authorities and airport security (if you did not outright seek their abolition in the first place).
Your entire posting on these forums however seems to be based on the premise that no-one ever is a criminal or terrorist and thus that should be the basic premise of border authorities and airport security (if you did not outright seek their abolition in the first place).
Dec 14, 2015, 9:48 pm
#24
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Posts: 102,095
Your entire posting on these forums however seems to be based on the premise that no-one ever is a criminal or terrorist and thus that should be the basic premise of border authorities and airport security (if you did not outright seek their abolition in the first place).
When border authorities and security screening personnel at airports are shouting, for example, in hostile ways directed at passengers, it's most commonly not a terrorist or other criminal who is the target of the ire from the border authorities and passenger screening personnel at airports.
Dec 15, 2015, 12:47 pm
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,685
Israel was a pain in the ... (both entry overland from Jordan and exit at TLV). And if it's this much of a pain in the ... for a white tourist, I can't imagine how Palestinians/Arabs in general have it - well, I can because I talked to some while waiting and saw how many had to wait, but to have to do this every time you want to enter your own country is ridiculous.
To elaborate a little bit: Israel's system seems to be to have some untrained conscript/TSA-equivalent ask you the same questions over and over again to get you to trip up on a lie, except that it's so obvious what they're doing and them not being the most intelligent people doesn't help, or spot some microexpressions, and then pass you over to someone with a bit more training though with lengthy delays.
Other than that, even though I've been to 80+ countries, I don't immediately remember experiencing anything worse than America's borders (before the machines were introduced). White European caveat applies there, makes a lot of things easier. A little preparation can also take you a long way, except in places like the US and Israel. For example, you can avoid the common border scams entering Cambodia just by knowing about them. Avoid the lengthy queues at the Kazakh/Uzbek border by thinking just a little bit about timing and knowing the processes beforehand. Never had any problem, other than occasionally having to wait a while and do something odd, like in Uzbekistan they sometimes count your money when you leave, and I knew about the possibility of that beforehand... Mostly it's because I took 5 minutes to do a Google search before going.
To elaborate a little bit: Israel's system seems to be to have some untrained conscript/TSA-equivalent ask you the same questions over and over again to get you to trip up on a lie, except that it's so obvious what they're doing and them not being the most intelligent people doesn't help, or spot some microexpressions, and then pass you over to someone with a bit more training though with lengthy delays.
Other than that, even though I've been to 80+ countries, I don't immediately remember experiencing anything worse than America's borders (before the machines were introduced). White European caveat applies there, makes a lot of things easier. A little preparation can also take you a long way, except in places like the US and Israel. For example, you can avoid the common border scams entering Cambodia just by knowing about them. Avoid the lengthy queues at the Kazakh/Uzbek border by thinking just a little bit about timing and knowing the processes beforehand. Never had any problem, other than occasionally having to wait a while and do something odd, like in Uzbekistan they sometimes count your money when you leave, and I knew about the possibility of that beforehand... Mostly it's because I took 5 minutes to do a Google search before going.
Dec 15, 2015, 11:56 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SAN
Posts: 284
+1
AKL & YVR have been my nastiest experiences with immigration - ranked 1 & 2 respectively. The officers in these two airports are very CBP like and I always get the rough 3rd degree treatments from them whenever I enter through these two POEs.
OTOH, my entries through CHC, WLG, YUL, YEG, Peace Bridge, and Douglas have been uneventful. Lots of questionings? Yes, but nothing out of the ordinary. As a matter of fact on my last arrival into YUL, the officer even cracked a smile with me at the end and recommended a restaurant for me to try near my hotel after I satisfied all his questions.
Therefore I am curious as to what makes AKL & YVR such difficult POEs. They seem to be on a different level compared to other entry points in New Zealand and Canada judging from my encounters.
AKL & YVR have been my nastiest experiences with immigration - ranked 1 & 2 respectively. The officers in these two airports are very CBP like and I always get the rough 3rd degree treatments from them whenever I enter through these two POEs.
OTOH, my entries through CHC, WLG, YUL, YEG, Peace Bridge, and Douglas have been uneventful. Lots of questionings? Yes, but nothing out of the ordinary. As a matter of fact on my last arrival into YUL, the officer even cracked a smile with me at the end and recommended a restaurant for me to try near my hotel after I satisfied all his questions.
Therefore I am curious as to what makes AKL & YVR such difficult POEs. They seem to be on a different level compared to other entry points in New Zealand and Canada judging from my encounters.
One time I recall the guy in front of me getting a grilling - I then went to the same agent and was done very quickly. Looking at the guy I could not see anything obvious to trigger suspicion but then again I'm not sure what the agent saw which I did not.
Dec 16, 2015, 1:23 am
#27
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,872
I FLEW for first time US-YYZ last year and at the arrival counter, the officer asked me" Have you been CA before"? I said yes thru the border. Asked me why I am visiting Toronto, I said meet family friends. He says "so that means you are now not working?" I replied I do but I have time off. He writes big X on back of the arrival card and tells me go to the other side which had a line of about 15 people. I was asked the purpose of my visit and showed them my flight and hotel reservation. He typed something and I was out!
Never like this in Europe or Asia
Never like this in Europe or Asia
Dec 16, 2015, 1:23 pm
#28
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SEA, OGG(I wish)
Programs: was UA 1K now Gold, cuz UA 1.3 MM; HA,DL,AS (no status in these), Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,238
They're trained to pick up on unusual patterns. What you describe is an unusual pattern. While your trip makes sense within the context of FFP gaming, it doesn't make sense within any context the majority of the public would be familiar with.
Ultimately they let you go pretty swiftly, so it's not like you were majorly inconvenienced.
Dec 16, 2015, 8:21 pm
#29
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 294
There was one Alitalia's mistake fare (BUD-FCO-VCE via NRT ) which allowed for only a few hours' stay in Japan, the authorities were baffled when the first pax on these tix started to arrive and declared their stay to be 5-6-7 (whatever) hours. After a week or so when they heard "Alitalia mistake fare" they just waved people thru
) which allowed for only a few hours' stay in Japan, the authorities were baffled when the first pax on these tix started to arrive and declared their stay to be 5-6-7 (whatever) hours. After a week or so when they heard "Alitalia mistake fare" they just waved people thru 
This happens all the time at NRT, though. People have a 5+ hours connection and head into Narita or Tokyo. I've done it, just to have a meal outside - no questions from customs (who definitely question more than immigration).
Dec 17, 2015, 4:50 am
#30
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
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Indeed, NRT/HND transit passengers with several hours available in Japan do often enter Japan if their passport gets them admissible into Japan without a visa.