nacho

Not long - an elk made it from Sweden to Denmark about 10-12 years ago - someone found one running around in North Sealand

FT Guest xyzpdq

I guess the "humanitarian superpower" is dead.

What really goes beyond me is how Sweden now exports its passport control to the Danish Railways that will now have to open (and fund) border check-points at Kastrup. This is estimated to cost DKK 11m per month. As a Danish tax payer I will thus fund a border control that the Swediah government has initiated - and which is only needed because of earlier decisions by the Swedish government.

GUWonder

The word is that Sweden wants Denmark to do the same thing Sweden is attempting and to try to make it worth it to Denmark to do so. Then after Denmark replicates, along with Germany and Austria going down the same route, Sweden won't have to fund this show within the NPU region and can instead allocate the same resources to more extensively contribute to Frontex. The idea is that more and more countries will contribute way more to Frontex efforts after the intra-Schengen control costs become more obvious.

As a frequent user of this bridge, I'm sure this outsourced border control show will show up in my being hit by higher fares than I already pay. The intra-Schengen controls are just an easier sell (at least in the short-term) than giving the EC/Brussels more power than it already has by making them in charge of Schengen's external borders, even over the objection of nation-states within Schengen.

FT Guest xyzpdq

That may be but in my mind the Swedish government is holding the Danish tax payers hostage - simply to its own inability to take proper action in due time. (One should be carefull, you might get what you ask for)

GUWonder

The Danish taxpayers in the main, but also the Swedish ones too -- more so those who are cross-border commuters in the region, but not even just them.

Skane will become less Danish if this dynamic continues for too long -- and it's already too long for a commuter market.

The Swedish parliament passed the border control authorization to apply for the next three years. Will be interesting to see what this does to Skane hotel rates. Danish hoteliers should celebrate.

nacho

Oh yes, this is just one thing that the Swedish government messed up - now that they are going to print money to fund the migrant cost. They need to hit a wall 3 times and then do something drastic.

Just saw on the news yesterday saying that there isn't enough space at the mortuary in Skane is overfilled, Skanetrafiken is not getting enough money and that there is no money to hire doctors in hospitals here......wait and see when Sweden crashes.

Yesterday on the Danish TV I saw that some kommune on Lolland are happy about having the asylum centres because they create jobs - hopeless, who is paying for these jobs? Taxpayers. Why don't they let the migrants help out to get their new home ready? Normal people do that.

Isn't that what Stockholm wants?

This border control is ridiculous - you can still get to Sweden:

1. Rent a car and drive across the bridge - now all the migrants need to do is to rent a car in Denmark and drive across, as soon as they are stopped by the police, they said they want to apply for asylum. Unless the Swedish government impose the regulation on car rental companies too

2. Take a boat from Russia, enter Northern Norway e.g. Narvik or somewhere like that, take a train from there to Kiruna and then down to wherever they want.

3. If Finland/Baltic nations haven't closed their border, then they can just head up to any of those countries and take a ferry across.

I'm sure smugglers have more ways to do that. If they prefer Denmark, they can just tell the Swedish police that they want to go to Denmark and I'm sure they will be very happy to help.

GUWonder

Under 18s won't be required to have a valid ID for these post-January 4th crossings into Sweden if the child is in the company of someone with valid ID. But a group of kids without an accompanying adult with accepted ID will be required by the transport operators to have valid ID, if the service operators don't want to risk a 50,000 SEK fine per incident.

FT Guest xyzpdq

Very likely - Stockholm is in many ways so far away from the south of Sweden.
Seems to have a hard time to accept the over 30-40% of the Swedish population actually live clsoer to Copenhagen than to Stockholm

GUWonder

Let's see how many decades it will be until that number exceeds 50%. Perhaps some in Stockholm want Skane and even Blekinge to leave, just to set back the balance.

Leave Sweden without ID when going across the bridge? Then you have to fly into Sweden if wanting to come in without ID and you're over 18? Right now, that is an easy (albeit not so cheap) way around. And right now, there are still ways to go across the bridge without being checked; however, it requires knowing the operations of the police in Sweden -- not such a hard thing for some to figure out.

For people who want to go via Hyllie and further into Sweden by rail, you're better off waiting for the purple Pagatag/commuter rail trains rather than boarding the Oresundstag train there.

GUWonder

Bad news for travelers using the Oresundstag for Danish points that are before/beyond CPH airport in Denmark.

Oresundstag is cutting service across the bridge and starting January 4th all their trips across the bridge will begin and end at CPH airport, due to this ID check game.

Passengers will have to change mode/vehicle of transport at CPH for these cross-border trips on the most common service provider for rail service across the bridge.

Frequency of trains in peak hours will be cut from every ten minutes to only once every 20 minutes (or perhaps worse at some future point) -- in both directions.

The Oresundstag trains from Copenhagen to Sweden are so packed at times that people can't even board the first incoming trains at CPH as it is now -- reminds me of the 4/5/6 from the UES to go downtown in Manhattan during the morning rush hour. And that is before the service frequency is cut back. It's not going to end up better with worse frequency of service.

And SJ -- Swedish national rail -- had already announced that these checks have driven it to stop serving Denmark after January 4th.

tsastor

Sorry, but the Nordic governments have now shown that they are serious, and I expect all loopholes to be closed.

2. Norway has already deemed Russia a safe country and is not accepting any refugees from there.

3. "Refugees"/refugees entering Finland are being registered there and cannot apply for refugee status in Sweden. Those coming from Russia are processed separately and sent back within a week.

GUWonder

People are still getting around the border controls in each and everyone of the Nordic Passport Union countries. And even after January 4th, the workarounds are still going to be in play.

Denmark's threat to seize refugees' valuables as a border control measure? Serious, sure, but a workaround is already in play and unfortunately it's going to create more mess than it solves -- including by making for an awful, ramped up underground economy dynamic which is already up and running.

Norway may deem Russia a safe country, but non-Russian refugees who transit Russia and arrive in Norway may not necessarily be admissible into Russia; and Russia is not a safe country if you've been say a Russian journalist openly hostile to Putin and extra-hostile to the Chechen running Chechnya currently; and for that it means Norway has a legal obligation to duly process such a Russian asylum seeker with a credible claim to fear for their life if returned to their home state of Russia, even if Norway deems "Russia" safe.

tsastor

Yes it was the case before when people were admitted to Norway from Russia without valid visas. But now the emigrants are turned back at the border without allowing them to enter the country. In this case they have never left Russia and Russian border control has to take them back.

GUWonder

It depends on where the refugee is standing when making the claim for asylum/refugee status. In some cases still, they'd be in Norway already and then Norway's not legally allowed to turn all such people back into Russia and even then those returned are to be returned at legal border crossings. In some parts, if Norway were to find a refugee or other migrant having just crossed in at say an unauthorized cut point in Russia's barbed wire fence, it can't legally toss the person through any old fence hole and back into Russia. And then Russia is refusing them entry on the grounds that they don't have a Russian visa, have claimed refugee status in Norway and don't want to be admitted into Russia. It's a bit like human ping-pong.

Coming in by bike from Russia to Norway -- which I think did get shut down -- isn't the only way refugees have come into Norway directly from Russia. Also, not all crossings happen at the legal border crossing points. And once summer comes back, the flows are going to pick up again at irregular areas too, unless the supply-side factors leading to ramped up refugee numbers are resolved in large part before then.

The EC is pushing hard for a "smart borders" full implementation in the spring of 2016, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to stop up all of the possible holes that have been in use this year.

tsastor

I doubt the fence situation you have described would be handled like this by the Russian authorities. And anyway, the flow of emigrants to northern Norway has now in practice ended.