WilcoRoger

Actually one is legally required to carry an ID accepted for travel when crossing intra-Schengen borders. So cross border bus/train pax are legally required to have such an ID.

It's just a small addition to the bus/train co's T&C along the lines of "all passangers must be able to produce a valid ID for cross-border transportation with our company"

GUWonder

Who cares about ethnic backgrounds, beside racists. In many a democratic state -- if there is an exception -- the ranks of convicted criminals are ordinarily overrepresented by the relatively poor in a state and by males in the 15-40 year age range in that state. Even when you control for ethnic background, same sort of dynamic is relatively common.

These ID checks for intra-Schengen travel are mainly about asking people for ID and controlling refugee flows rather than finding criminals. The ID checks are primarily just a show.

GUWonder

Lost of people traveling between parts of the Schengen area across national borders are not legally required to carry ID.

Most of those people whom I know to travel from Denmark to Sweden weren't legally required to carry ID to travel between these countries until this month -- and even now, guess what, the Swedish government is legally required to admit a lot of Schengen country citizens even if they show up without ID -- something that is still happening daily.

I, however, am required to have a passport to travel between these countries.

Sure, but it doesn't mean that the T&C is necessarily legally enforceable in all jurisdictions. Nor does it mean that the bus/train operators have or should have law enforcement allowances to coerce people into contract compliance via violent means.

nacho

I think Sweden is very similar to the US about "racism". Both places are very scared of using it - in the US I think sometimes it's way too extreme. In Sweden you never say anything about someone's ethnicity. The truth is that ethnic minority does have a higher ratio of unemployment and criminal activities. This is purely based on statistic - it doesn't say anything about being a racist.

In Sweden the government claims that there are more than 10k migrants gone missing - I found it crazy. They are probably going back to Germany?!

With this border control, migrants can just march in, they will still come but with people smugglers as long as Europe still opens their hearts.

Read the USA today from last week and there were only 21 Syrian refugees arrived in Dallas.

GUWonder

You've never said something about someone's ethnicity while in Sweden? Why don't I believe that.

You must live in a different Sweden than the one where I am in today ... until I go into Denmark without my ID being checked.

nacho

Actually in Sweden the media won't report one's ethnicity - everyone has an idea I guess, no need to write it out.

The term "racism" will be my joker - I'll use it if I have to.

GUWonder

Unless you're claiming refugee status/asylum on the basis of your ethnicity being persecuted in your country of citizenship, ethnicity is irrelevant when it comes to these intra-Schengen cross-border ID checks. What matters is whether or not a person is legally admissible and what the conditions are to be legally admissible/present in the country to which you've travelled within the Schengen area. Citizenship matters, while ethnicity isn't generally relevant, when it comes to the crossings.

Even if ethnicity were relevant -- and it really isn't relevant since individuals are individuals first and foremost, unless you believe in ethnicity-based communal punishment and don't care about individual justice for individuals -- ethnicity isn't always all that clear. It's sometimes not even clear to the people who think they share the supposed ethnicity and/or nationality and/or citizenship of a person who appears before them. Nor is citizenship status always all that clear. But at least with ID checks, the ID is either cleared or not cleared to identify the person and/or the citizenship of a person who is admissible and/or seeking admission into a country.

WilcoRoger

A certain government and a zillion institution cares a lot - I think your passport is issued by the same government. Have ever came across the question "race" in any official, semi-offical, etc questionnaire? Does "positive discrimination" ring a bell? And this is just one country.

But to continue along your line of thought - who would care about gender but sexists? Who would care about age but ageists? Who would care about women but misogyns? etc, etc

WilcoRoger

I think you're wrong. One thing is to be "required" and another is "being enforced" There might be exceptions (name some, please) but the rules say they have to. The difference is that a NPU drivig licence is an accepted form within the NPU, whereas outside it's not neccessarily so.

Check page 11 here http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs...3111126_en.pdf

WilcoRoger

That's a top trump card in any discussion with the PC-brigade. You disagree on anything, you're a racist, discussion over.

WilcoRoger

You must have noticed that you're the only one talking about violence in this discussion.

GUWonder

No, for you too are discussing it.

How do you think the train and bus operators are going to both prevent boarding by passengers without ID and remove people who don't show ID and refuse to come off the train? Short of coercive force using violence, it's not easy to do.

GUWonder

My passport has no mention of "race"/"ethnicity" on it. ICAO-standardized passports aren't required to have ethnicity/race listed. It's not relevant to legal admissibility and legal presence requirements when dealing with this intra-Schengen border crossing.

Citizens of NPU countries aren't legally required to have a passport or NPU-issued driving license to cross borders into Sweden or Denmark.

Citizens of other countries from elsewhere in the Schengen area are a different legal matter.

WilcoRoger

Call the police to remove those people from their property. Easy.

GUWonder

And the German police said they aren't going to be the ID guardians on trains/buses from Germany to Denmark, so welcome to delays, whether they show up and act or not. And why would the German police be interested in getting involved in a civil contract dispute between passengers and carrier when there are crimes to pursue?

"Passport exemption

Citizens of the Nordic countries may travel in the Nordic countries without a travel document but must be able to prove their identity on request. Documents accepted include a driving licence.

But if a Nordic citizen enters a Nordic country from a country other than a Nordic country, they must carry a passport or ID card.

Travel documents of non-Finnish citizens

When arriving in Finland, a non-Finnish citizen must carry a passport. They will also need a visa unless they are exempt from the visa obligation under EU regulations. Citizens of most European Union member states may also use an ID card as their travel document."

http://www.raja.fi/guidelines/travel_documents

The Danes authorities even accepted Swedish bank cards which didn't have any photo of the Swedish citizens on them. Identity validation without government-issued photo ID for NPU country citizens.