DTW-HomeyFour

My cousin is a first officer for Air Wisconsin (US Express) and he freely admits not only to leaving his cell phone on during almost all flights, but actually making/taking calls when low enough to get a cell. (He did mention that he doesn't talk on the phone when he is the pilot flying.) He said they have never once had a glitch in the cockpit, save for the occasional tick-tick-tick sound on the radio that some cell phones cause.

chinatraderjmr

Emirates now allows mobile calls during the flight, made with the help of equipment onboard that makes it possible. What a ridiculous state of affairs when one airline lets you make actual cell phone call during flight and another wont even let you turn it on. talk bout mixed signals]

Oh - they also give the purer a polaroid to take pictures of any passengers who ant one done, they give it to you in s frame, etc. Must be very dangerous

BThumme

It's not just that. one airline allows calls, the other threatens to have the police meet you upon landing...For...taking pictures of take off.

studentff

In the early days of US carriers allowing cellphones during taxi-in, this sort of hypocrisy was routine. Each aircraft type allegedly had to be certified to allow cell phone use.

United Express carriers began flying brand new not-yet-certified-for-cellular E170s around this time. The FAs on these flights would freak out if you tried to use a cell phone on taxi in, but cell phones were allowed on every other UA and UX type.

chinatraderjmr

From my time spent "jump seating" in cockpits before 9/11, I noticed that Boeing pilots NEVER had a problem with me video taping the take off or landings from the cockpit but I had run across a few Scare Bus Captains who, while allowing me to video tape during the cruise, had asked me not to once they put the "NO SMOKING" sign on. (remember those).........sounds like the middle ages but it was not THAT long ago...the late 90's and even up to 2000 - 2001. (have not seen a cockpit since then except on one carrier that shall remain nameless

RockyMtnHigh

Without getting into the technical side of it, the issue is more associated with spurious emissions and frequency mixing that occurs when multiple transmitted signals (from any transmitter - all cell phones are transmitters) mix and re-radiate. The re-radiated signals include the sum and difference of the fundamental frequencies and an infinite number of harmonics.. The mixing can take place virtually any place.

If the spurious signal or harmonic falls on a frequency used by the planes navigation or communications equipment, a problem might occur if the spur or harmonic is stronger than the desired frequency.

So, why do I have to turn off a game boy? All electronic equipment radiates signals. Look at virtually any device you own and read the FCC Part 15 notice.

Yes, pilots now have iPads, and the limited number of "tested" devices have been approved. What you don't know is if some tech-no-nerd modified his/her iPad, game boy or other electronic device and that device now violates Part 15, and emits harmful signals. The FCC has a long term program called Type Acceptance, which requires all electronic equipment sold in the USA to meet certain Radio Frequency Interference standards. Most all other countries have their version of this program.

If you know beforehand the frequencies being used in an environment you can engineer your equipment to deal with the mixing. It's impossible to know what someone brings on an airplane, therefore the prudent thing to do is to not allow any unauthorized electronic equipment to operate during landing and take-off.

Why non technical people feel it's their right to push the envelope when it can endanger their life and that of others is pure arrogance.

The rules are there for a reason, even if people don't understand the underlying technology.

747FC

Well said!

SeriouslyLost

So what you're saying is that we shouldn't hold our phones right next to the headsets of pilots & send text messages during takeoff? Seems a reasonable request.





(BTW, most headsets are mylar diaphragms that run a dielectric current across them these days, not magnets. A cellphone signal can't make them resonate, sorry: it just doesn't have the power necessary. Also, during takeoff there're precious few conversations going on from the tower to any particular pilot. And even if the reason you give were true (& it isn't) it would also apply after landing when pilots are talking to the tower while moving to the gate. & yet airlines allow you to start with the phones the instant the plane lands.)

SeriouslyLost

At this point I think it's more to do with a wistful desire for the US to catch up with the rest of world that does allow electronics in use and doesn't have planes falling out of the sky. You know, like in most of the EU.

RockyMtnHigh

Seriously, there is no reason to catch up with anyone. Just because they go it in EU is a poor excuse to do it here. I'd prefer to take the safest route than add more complexity to an already complex environment. Been in the RF business for 50 years, seen things that we still don't quite understand.

Why take risk just so some ego manic can talk loud enough so the entire plane can hear him/her, or for some kid to play his/her xbox... No thanks, turn them all off.

embee101

As an engineer, I totally agree with RockyMtnHigh. It bugs me to no end that people will think they are above the rules. I've reprimanded numerous people for not following the cell phone rules, even offering to shut them off for them if they can't seem to do it themselves. Here's the way I view it. There are known cases of radios inside of helicopters bringing them down (http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publ...ticle/EMI.html ). I've worked on some of these programs and know this isn't b.s. There are alleged cases of certain electronics in certain seats in an aircraft influencing the aircraft electronics (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer..._textonly.html ), such that the aircraft manufacturer (Boeing) does not recommend electronics operation during takeoff and landing. To those of you who post "I left my cellphone on during a flight and it didn't crash", you're being naive/stupid/careless. Of course not every cellphone in any location makes any plane crash, but there is some remote chance that your device will have a negative impact on the electronics on your flight at a critical time in that aircraft's operation. Offboard, I don't really care what stupid/naive/careless things you do, but if your rule-flaunting actions even have a REMOTE chance of affecting my safety onboard, you betcha that I'm going to be very serious about making sure you turn off your elex, and if all of us FFs did the same, it would be much less of a potential issue.

SeriouslyLost

No, but the fact that there is no demonstrable danger and the EU has accepted that is a perfectly good reason.



I look forward to your campaign to have cellphone & all other electronic use banned upon landing. And in the terminal. And on the ground around airports for a 3 km radius. It's important to ignore the science and "take the safest route."

InkUnderNails

OK, now I'm scared.

I often look out my airplane window on landing at they are flying pretty close to some 100,000 watt radio towers.

There are cell towers just about everywhere.

Let's not forget satellite transmissions.

Did you know they sell microwave ovens for use in tractor trailer trucks? Microwaves? In an 80,000 pound vehicle rolling down the highway. What if it interferes with the truck electronics. They use cell phones AND CB radios. I am sure CB radios have radio waves. At least I am pretty sure, not being the engineer type.

And is there any reason to mention On-Star? And GPS?

I am really, really scared.

All of this stray RF interference explains the hundred? tens? of unsolved airplane crashes. It has to be a lot. It sounds sooooooo dangerous.

Did I mention how scared I am?

embee101

I realize this may be akin to trying to teach a pig to sing, but look, you can generalize it as InkUnderNails did, but it turns it into an absurdity. Yes, Ink, you DO see radio towers out the window, but apply the inverse square law and the fact that the aircraft is a pretty large Faraday cage and you realize that the radio towers have little effect, as do the cell towers. But INSIDE the aircraft, neither of these apply. No one suggested that RFI explains all airline crashes, or even any of them, but it has never been proven that there is no effect. What is the risk/benefit analysis? Do you speed through red lights at low-traffic intersections? In addition, one of the reasons for no electronic devices during takeoff and landing is that it is physically not possible for FAs to check EVERY device to see if it is capable of emitting RF energy. Turn them ALL off, and they don't have to worry. Be as sarcastic as you want, if you're sitting next to me, I'm going to ask you (first very nicely) to turn it off.

SeriouslyLost

You do realize what you just said, don't you?





Could be tricky for the people with embedded powered medical devices and all those fancy new prosthetic limbs that have onboard electronics. Etc. Going to ask people to stop their pacemakers or power down their limbs?

(Have you seen some of the stuff that is out there? I saw a web capable pacemaker the other week. Bizarre and interesting stuff. Along with the somewhat concerning factoid that it's hackable, it broadcasts. )

Sorry, while I think the ban is ridiculous, your argument for it is even more ridiculous.