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I'm not impressed
I went back to the beginning and re-read the letter. It says nothing and commits to nothing. See my comments in red:
Originally Posted by Chrisinhouston
(Post 16854991)
Dear Mr. Summers,
Your questions to me were: 1. Am I required by law to speak my name and if so please identify the law or is this voluntary? Answer: You are not required to speak your name. As you pointed out, there is a fraction of the population that might not be physically capable of so doing. The supervisor you encountered who as you indicated “was polite but asked me to explain why I would not comply” was responding to an Officer call and attempting to determine whether there was some other reason you might have been reluctant. Use of fraudulent and stolen, altered documents has been identified, and as TSA moves more toward changes in the screening process, the ability to identify those who have ill or criminal intent will continue to be a concern to be addressed. Read closely. The reason the clerk gave for not being "required" is because "a fraction of the population ... might not be physically capable of so doing." The clerk never said that there was no TSA requirement for passengers to state their name when ordered. And, the clerk never answered the second question about citing the law or regulation and whether or not it was voluntary. 2. You mention your appreciation for my patience and assisting the TSA in this test program. Am I free to decline to assist the TSA in this matter? Answer: You are certainly free to inform the Officer that you prefer not to speak your name out loud in public. If the Officer feels your response is suspicious, they will no doubt request a supervisor to respond and investigate further. Once again, he never stated that there was no TSA requirement to state your name. He also went on record stating that "refusal = suspicion." 3 If I show valid a ID and boarding pass and politely refuse to speak my name out loud, can I legally be kept from advancing through the checkpoint? Answer: I think your experience speaks for itself. You were not prevented from advancing through the checkpoint. However, that does not mean that you won’t be asked further questions. Once again, the clerk never answered the question and left open the possibility that the FTer would be refused entry in the future. 4. Do my Constitutional rights as a US citizen stop at the TSA screening area as I was once told? Answer: Your Constitutional rights do not stop at the TSA screening area, nor does the Mission of TSA to protect the Nation’s Transportation Security System to ensure the freedom of movement for people and commerce as mandated by the Aviation Transportation Security Act signed into law in November 2001. The TSA achieves that freedom of movement through its people, processes, and technology. In order to achieve that Mission with a dynamic and changing adversary while at the same time recognizing that most of the traveling public are not the adversary, the TSA tests, pilots and initiates a number of new processes and technologies to ensure your traveling freedom. The clerk issued a subtle threat that the Constitution is weighed against the TSA's purported mission. He just puked out the first line of their mission statement without any attempt to apply it to the question at hand. You also indicated that the supervisor you encountered stated to you, "We are free to make up any rules we want and we don't have to post them anywhere!" (Your emphasis added). While I do not know the context of the conversation you had with the supervisor in question (you indicated when she came back you engaged in further conversation on the matter), nor do I know the tone and demeanor of either in this exchange, I can tell you that the statement you allege she made would be inappropriate and misleading as stated. I will pass that along to Operations Management to investigate for corrective action. However, because of privacy laws, I would not able to share with you the specifics of any corrective actions that might be taken. He never said the clerk was wrong or lied, only that it was "inappropriate and misleading." Well, then, tell us how it was inappropriate and misleading. I hope this answers your questions. If I can offer further information or clarification, please let me know. Respectfully, Gene Brault |
I have variable hearing loss. Some days it is bad. Others it is worse. So when I get any unexpected questions, it creates an opportunity for failure.
The scene: TDC training new guy. TDC: (Question I did not understand) Me: Huh? TDC (Another question I did not understand, or maybe same one) Me: Huh? Trainee: (To TDC) Let me try. (To me, he was closer, looked me in the eye and did not mumble-the triplet of successful communication) Kentucky, I see. Like bourbon? Me: Wild Turkey 101 is my regular. Trainee to TDC: He's OK. Conclusion: Terrorists are probably not bourbon types. |
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails
(Post 23160092)
I have variable hearing loss. Some days it is bad. Others it is worse. So when I get any unexpected questions, it creates an opportunity for failure.
The scene: TDC training new guy. TDC: (Question I did not understand) Me: Huh? TDC (Another question I did not understand, or maybe same one) Me: Huh? Trainee: (To TDC) Let me try. (To me, he was closer, looked me in the eye and did not mumble-the triplet of successful communication) Kentucky, I see. Like bourbon? Me: Wild Turkey 101 is my regular. Trainee to TDC: He's OK. Conclusion: Terrorists are probably not bourbon types. Completely unrelated, look up directions on infusing 101 with bacon, the results are salty, bacony goodness. |
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails
(Post 23160092)
Conclusion: Terrorists are probably not bourbon types.
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
(Post 23156674)
I went back to the beginning and re-read the letter. It says nothing and commits to nothing. See my comments in red:
Mr. Brault, Thank you for your quick response about the pilot program being conducted at IAH to ask passengers to pronounce their last names. Since this is not part of the search for WEI, what are consequences to a passenger who doesn't respond to the request? Regards, ND Sol Dear ND Sol, If I was a Transportation Security Officer on the floor and a passenger didn’t want to give me their name, I would first be certain I was not dealing with someone who was mute, and barring that, I would regard such a simple request as suspicious and probably notify my supervisor and a behavioral detection officer. They would need to try to figure out why a passenger had trouble to provide their name. If the name provided didn’t match the one on the documents presented, I would also contact my supervisor and a behavioral detection officer to have additional dialog. Beyond that it would be the decision of the supervisor in charge as to what other measures should be taken. As we move toward risk based screening, it is reasonable to assume that variations in the norm and anomalies will draw more attention, but that is merely my assessment, and as I stated the purpose of pilot programs are to examine, analyze, and decide whether measures have value or not. Respectfully, Gene Brault |
Anyone tried taking a copy of the documents you present anyway out of your pocket when asked and read the name which is written on there?
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
(Post 23161654)
I don't disagree with your assessment as this was part of my e-mail exchange with Mr. Brault in July 2011:
And this was his response: I know it was way back in 2011, but, it would have been very interesting to get his take on the fact that there is no law compelling me to pronounce my name as it would be pronounced in the language of North American English. And, it would have been interesting to get his take on the fact that there is no law stating that a person can't change the pronunciation of their name any time they want to -- even during the same conversation. It makes the name game useless (It's useless anyway.) if there is no "right answer" to the question. |
I asked a TDC today how he would know if I pronounced my name wrong. He said I would have to "really butcher it."
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I was behind a pax who handled it this way. She straightened up slightly, spoke in a clear, carrying but not super loud voice:
"Sir. Elliott-Burnham, two L's, two T's, hyphen but the airline removes the hyphen, Mashelle, that's M-A-S-H-E-L-L-E, Marye, that's Mary with an 'e'. Sir." The TDC just looked at her. I held my breath for a second and thought "She's about to be in big trouble", and it was clear the TDC was debating whether or not he'd just been disrespected and a punitive secondary was in order. Finally, he handed her BP and ID back and reached past her to me for my docs. |
Variation on the game rules today in DTW. TSO scans BP, hears 3 beeps for PreCheck, begins circling info with the magic squiggles. Then she says my last name out loud and asks me if that is my name. I do not respond.
She repeats my name and then pointedly asks me to say my last name. I said, "That's what is on the BP." She asks me again, and I repeat my answer. She then says the name of the destination airport on my BP and asks if that is where I'm going. I again reply, "That's what the BP says, right?" She then says I'm not cooperating and calls for a supervisor. One minute later, the supervisor asks her what is the problem. The TSO says she's trying to verify my information and I'm not cooperating. The supervisor asks me why I won't answer. I replied, "She wants me to read the information on the BP back to her. Why do I need to do that?" The supervisor then says, "because it would be the polite thing to do." I didn't reply nor provide the information requested. The supervisor then says, "everyone has different ways of doing their job, and she's trying to do hers. You need to cooperate." I again said nothing. Got three full scans of my BP, three sets of magic squiggles, and then I was on my way. And I still didn't say my name nor my destination airport. What a joke. |
Originally Posted by KDS
(Post 23189473)
Variation on the game rules today in DTW. TSO scans BP, hears 3 beeps for PreCheck, begins circling info with the magic squiggles. Then she says my last name out loud and asks me if that is my name. I do not respond.
She repeats my name and then pointedly asks me to say my last name. I said, "That's what is on the BP." She asks me again, and I repeat my answer. She then says the name of the destination airport on my BP and asks if that is where I'm going. I again reply, "That's what the BP says, right?" She then says I'm not cooperating and calls for a supervisor. One minute later, the supervisor asks her what is the problem. The TSO says she's trying to verify my information and I'm not cooperating. The supervisor asks me why I won't answer. I replied, "She wants me to read the information on the BP back to her. Why do I need to do that?" The supervisor then says, "because it would be the polite thing to do." I didn't reply nor provide the information requested. The supervisor then says, "everyone has different ways of doing their job, and she's trying to do hers. You need to cooperate." I again said nothing. Got three full scans of my BP, three sets of magic squiggles, and then I was on my way. And I still didn't say my name nor my destination airport. What a joke. I suppose you could've said "Everyone has different ways of being a passenger, and I'm doing it my way" - singing the last bit like Sinatra! :D |
Originally Posted by 84fiero
(Post 23189568)
Ah, so now we're terrorists if we're impolite and apparently each TSA clerk gets to make it up as they go along?:rolleyes:
I suppose you could've said "Everyone has different ways of being a passenger, and I'm doing it my way" - singing the last bit like Sinatra! :D :):p |
"everyone has different ways of doing their job, and she's trying to do hers. "
Trying, but not well, since she's supposed to be doing it the correct way and not her own. |
Originally Posted by China Clipper
(Post 23148953)
Yep. Fun to see the power rangers on here bragging about how they'd 'stick it to the man' and show that TSA who's boss!
Back here in the real world, show even the tiniest bit of lip (or have them think you are) and you don't fly today. And that's actually the best possible outcome. The last time this happened, I asked the gal what this was protecting us (the flying public) against. Her response? "We're not protecting against anything." 'Nuff said. |
Originally Posted by Chrisinhouston
(Post 16854991)
Received this polite reply from Mr. Gene Brault Customer Support/Quality Improvement Manager, ICMS Coordinator, TSA, George Bush Intercontinental Airport-Houston (IAH)
It contains several statements that TSA willfully violates US law, which would be useful to me for my pending lawsuit against them. . as TSA moves more toward changes in the screening process, the ability to identify those who have ill or criminal intent will continue to be a concern to be addressed. If the Officer feels your response is suspicious, they will no doubt request a supervisor to respond and investigate further. If it's not "suspicion that you are carrying a weapon or explosive", then it's illegal. It's definitely illegal if their "investigation" amounts to a detention. They're not cops and not allowed to detain you based on a purported reasonable suspicion of any crime. The one and only thing they are allowed to do is search you & your stuff for weapons & explosives. That's it. |
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