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-   -   Requirement for speaking your name? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1398391-requirement-speaking-your-name.html)

RevJim Jan 16, 2014 10:11 am


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22165598)
As an American living abroad, I am excused from ObamaCare unless I spend more than 35 days in the U.S. Even, however, if I wanted to buy an ObamaCare policy I cannot -- as I do not have a U.S. domicile.


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22166212)
I am an American citizen who lives in Israel and the U.S. government, as of Jan 1, insists that all citizens who spend more than 35 days per year in the States be covered by an ObamaCare approved plan. However, if you do not have a U.S. residence, you cannot get a plan and thus if you are in the States for 36 days (even broken down to week-long visits) you are subject to a fine.

Dovster, it sounds like you are thoroughly informed on the subject, and I am probably not telling you anything new, but there are 2 ways to qualify for the exemption that you are describing. They are both found in 26 USC 911(d) here. One way is to physically be out of the US for 330 or more days (that's section (b), the one you are talking about) and the other is to maintain a foreign residence for the entire tax year, regardless of how many days you travel back and forth to the USA (section (a)).

As long as when you are physically in the US, you continue to maintain your foreign residency you can spend as many days you want in the US (within reason, I'm sure if it was over 6 months per year it would raise eyebrows), or at least that's how I understand it.

IANAL/YMMV. Consult a qualified accountant for actual tax advice of course.

Dovster Jan 16, 2014 10:30 am

This is taking this thread way off topic, but I just want to point out that the exemptions you are citing refer only to earned income. They do not apply to anything else, including ObamaCare.

The ACA has a special exemption for ex-pats as long as they do not spend more than 35 days per year in States.

WillCAD Jan 16, 2014 12:25 pm


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22165661)
I don't think that you and I are in the slightest disagreement that this is a silly requirement and should be abolished. My objection to much of what has been posted here is that is not a major enough issue to warrant the OP's actions.

If Hamlet were alive today, he would not include saying his name among the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortunate" that he bemoaned. Indeed, I think that the Bard would have included this in one of his comedies, not his tragedies.

But Dove, at what point does a stupid, useless, wasteful requirement become onerous enough to expend energy and effort protesting?

If you don't protest the small stuff, it eventually, inevitably, either becomes big stuff, or the small stuff aggregates to become one big bunch of small stuff.

Protesting the Name Game is but one part of the big picture. It's not the only way that folks are pushing back, and it's not done in a vacuum. There are also opt-outs, those who insist on fresh gloves and pre-tests when their belongings are swabbed, those who know (and follow) the 3-1-1 rules and inform TSOs that the limit is 3.4oz not 3oz, those who know (and follow) the rules regarding breast milk and liquid medications, and of course those who film TSOs.

All of these actions are simply standing up for one's rights. You may choose one of them and call it foolish, but the big pitcure is that you'd be calling a leaf foolish while defending the tree. Which is somewhat foolish in and of itself.

If you choose to buckle and say your name, fine. But don't disparage those who choose differently. We're all on the same side, all working toward the same goal - the protection of personal freedom and individual rights,

Dovster Jan 16, 2014 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 22167382)
But Dove, at what point does a stupid, useless, wasteful requirement become onerous enough to expend energy and effort protesting?

I don't know if there is an exact point but being asked to say my name to somebody who is reading it is far, far, before wherever that point may be.

For me, it is an opportunity to laugh, not a situation which demands outrage.

GUWonder Jan 16, 2014 5:21 pm


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22165598)
This was not asked of me, but I will answer.

We do have to get approval of the government before we can travel on airplanes. If we are on the "No Fly List" approval we will not be given approval until we can prove that we don't deserve to be there. If you object to this, I can well understand it.

We also have to go through a checkpoint before we can get on a plane. I can accept the need for this while, at the same time, objecting to overly intrusive searches without a solid reason for a particular one.

As far as having to say my name is concerned, I consider it a very tiny waste of effort but cannot agree that it violates my 4th Amendment rights, is an onerous burden, or invades my privacy. The checker, after all, has my name on the BP I am handing him so it gives him no new information about me.

There are many silly, but small, things we have to face in life. There is stop sign near my home at the intersection of two rural roads. When you get to it, you can see for at least a kilometer in each direction and there is very rarely a car coming. This stop sign should be a "Yield" sign but if I do not stop, I can get a ticket.

I am not going to make a major deal out of this.

Likewise, it is annoying that while I can make a right turn on red in most parts of the US in most other countries doing so, while perfectly safe, may result in my paying a big fine. I am also not going to go overboard in my complaints about this.

Do you want to know what really bothers me? The United States government has determined that as of January 1 of this year I cannot spend more than 35 days per year in the nation of my birth.

Yes, even though when I travel to the US I have full travel health insurance, and the government is not risking having to pay a penny for me, my insurance was issued by a German company and thus is not an ObamaCare approved policy.

As an American living abroad, I am excused from ObamaCare unless I spend more than 35 days in the U.S. Even, however, if I wanted to buy an ObamaCare policy I cannot -- as I do not have a U.S. domicile.

So, yes, this does bother me. It has been a few decades since I spent over 35 consecutive days in the U.S. but there have been a number of years when I was there for over 35 total days. I do consider this an undue burden and an invasion of my Constitutional rights, but I have to laugh at the idea that being asked to say my name in anyway compares to this.

You didn't answer. You just responded to his post with a non-answer. What do you like about having to ask the government for permission to be flown as a passenger? I don't like the idea of free US persons being required to seek US government approval to fly as a passenger, and I like the idea even less when it involves a waste of resources as is the case with the TSA questioning passengers over ID and names and more that have nothing to do with preventing passengers from smuggling WEIs at the physical screening checkpoints at airports.

[On the ACA matter, can't say I'm thrilled with it; I want to see it amended, but that's another matter.]

RevJim Jan 16, 2014 6:49 pm


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22166752)
the exemptions you are citing refer only to earned income. They do not apply to anything else, including ObamaCare.

The ACA has a special exemption for ex-pats as long as they do not spend more than 35 days per year in States.

The Obamacare exemption applies to anyone who qualifies for the foreign earned income credit. You can find that reference at 26 USC 5000A(f)(4)(a). It says if you qualify for 911(d)(1) either (A) or (B) then you don't need ACA insurance.

You are correct that we are off topic so feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it further. But I think I just saved you a few bucks. ;)

Xyzzy Jan 20, 2014 9:26 am

I was not asked for my name the other day at an airport fam:eek:us for asking. When told to proceed by the ID checker I asked whether they were finally done with the name game. The checker was nervous about being caught. I was, however, told that I was not asked as the checker agreed that it was pointless. I was also asked not report this to the supervisor. I promised I would not.

Notenut Feb 2, 2014 8:12 am

They were playing that stupid game at LGA Concourse C this past Friday. Interesting thing was that 2 days earlier at Concourse B nobody was asking pax. to say their names. (I went through security twice because my original flight was canceled due to the chaos in ATL and couldn't get out until Friday)
I can't express how comforted I was by the added layer of security at Concourse C....not.

ScatterX Feb 2, 2014 12:42 pm


Originally Posted by Notenut (Post 22270526)
They were playing that stupid game at LGA Concourse C this past Friday...

The random application of stupidity is part of their grand plan to keep the bad guys off guard. Sometimes the lack of a layer is a layer too. :D

GrumpyYoungMan Feb 7, 2014 9:55 am

Got asked last week in Corpus Christi, TX. I simply answered, "It's on my documents." The checker responded with, "I understand, sir," handed back my ID and BP, and I was on my way.

Also, they wouldn't let me hold my wallet in my hand there; they required it go through the X-ray.

MisterRobarto Feb 7, 2014 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by GrumpyYoungMan (Post 22304912)
Got asked last week in Corpus Christi, TX. I simply answered, "It's on my documents." The checker responded with, "I understand, sir," handed back my ID and BP, and I was on my way.

Also, they wouldn't let me hold my wallet in my hand there; they required it go through the X-ray.

I found the security screening process at RGN to be preferable to my average experience at CRP.

SeriouslyLost Feb 8, 2014 10:56 am


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 22165598)
Do you want to know what really bothers me? The United States government has determined that as of January 1 of this year I cannot spend more than 35 days per year in the nation of my birth.

Yes, even though when I travel to the US I have full travel health insurance, and the government is not risking having to pay a penny for me, my insurance was issued by a German company and thus is not an ObamaCare approved policy.

As an American living abroad, I am excused from ObamaCare unless I spend more than 35 days in the U.S. Even, however, if I wanted to buy an ObamaCare policy I cannot -- as I do not have a U.S. domicile.

What bothers me is people mis-understanding or mis-representing what the ACA says. If you are non-resident for taxes then you're not required to have coverage. EOS. The "non-residency" criteria are well established under law. At the point you lose your non-residency status then you're subject to the ACA. It's a very simple section - albeit, horribly laid out.

jackonferry Mar 18, 2014 2:22 pm

I was required to state my name
 
at LGA last Wednesday. It has been so long since I encountered the requirement and the TSA person asked the question so naturally, that I just blurted it out. I gave my middle name, since that's what I go by, and she didn't seem to care.

I say it was a requirement because I overheard the exchange with the person in line behind me. He wanted to know why he had to say it and she got very snippy with him (security sir!). After a few back and forths, he capitulated and got through, but not before she threatened to call a supervisor.

Is there an uptick in this since MH370 disappeared?

cynicAAl Mar 18, 2014 7:11 pm


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 22546850)
I say it was a requirement because I overheard the exchange with the person in line behind me. He wanted to know why he had to say it and she got very snippy with him (security sir!). After a few back and forths, he capitulated and got through, but not before she threatened to call a supervisor.

some airports claim that they "are required to ask". Fine. But that doesn't mean that I'm required to respond. Call a supv all you want. I've escalated up to a 3 striper at SFO. When I asked them to show me in their regs where I am required to state my name, they answered that they are required to ask. When I pushed the issue, the supv just walked away and I continued through the checkpoint.

SeriouslyLost Mar 18, 2014 7:37 pm


Originally Posted by cynicAAl (Post 19608963)
TDC: what is your first name ?
Me: Brad (note that this is not remotely similar to my actual name)
TDC: and your last name ?
Me: Wilson (also not remotely similar to my actual last name)
TDC handing me back my BP and ID: I don’t know why you need to be so difficult, it’s not that hard to say your name

I wonder how hard it would be to organize a national drive to have everyone answer "Michael Bolton". I just like the idea of that.

Especially if part of the routine can be to have everyone else in line do the response line about "that no talent @$$ clown (etc)". Amusing for travellers but would drive TDC's up the wall within an hour. Yay for civil disobedience via humour. :)


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