nrr

How do they do this? When I leave the US, I don't submit a document to the gov't. If I go to Europe (say), and I travel by train [using a Eurailpass] visiting lots of EU countries, there is NO way for "them" to know where I've been.

chollie

I don't know about land/water travel, but IIRC, the US has flight records for every commercial flight, leaving and returning. They probably have manifests (in fact, something happened recently that makes me sure they do) of every cruise ship passenger who leaves/returns.

That's not everyone, of course, but it's a start.

Case in point: I don't know how, but in spite of precautions, some Americans get caught every year (sometimes months after travel) because they went to Cuba, even though they didn't go directly to/from the US and even though they avoided getting any kind of passport stamp. So we obviously do some record sharing with Canada and Mexico, and I suspect we do a lot of record sharing on commercial flights that go between international destinations.

GUWonder

Passenger manifests and customs declaration forms are part of the picture of keeping tabs on US persons travels out of the country and back.

It doesn't mean that the record created is necessarily accurate and complete, but it is used to try to keep tabs on people.

And if you are suspected of criminal activity or of use in some investigations, then there may be some going after other travel records, online activity of various sorts, bank/credit card records, etc to fill out the picture.

nrr

These only are for inbound flights, for outbound flights, there are NO customs declarations.
A few years ago, I was flying on AA from JFK to CDG, and due to snow, I was able to go standby on an earlier flight. A few days after my arrival in CDG, when I checked my itn., I saw that my return flight had been cancelled--AA had not updated my itn. and had not recorded my standby flight. [This ultimately was sorted out, and I was able to fly home on my original return flt.] If I chose not to return as far as the govt. was concerned I never departed.
I don't think outbound flights are monitored as carefully as some say they are.

GUWonder

For outbound flights, the US tries to keep tab from passenger manifests and it is used for ATS purposes.

All outbound commercially-scheduled passenger flights have passenger manifests screened by the government.

The inbound customs declaration forms are used to match up persons with their outbound trips.

nrr

As I noted, if AA had lost track of my outbound departure, and they are the ones the govt. gets their info from--then the govt. did not have a record of my departure either.

Firebug4

Customs declarations are not used for that purpose. There are other computerized methods that have nothing to do with the customs declarations.

FB

GUWonder

Never used for that purpose? Never within nearly six months later or up to 3 years later?

Of course there are other computerized methods.

FlyingHoustonian

Depending on how many years aog the flight was but if just a "few" years ago, the final flight manifest was fully screened by DHS. Just because AA didn't update their system does not mean the manifest was not sent to DHS.
They are different systems.

nrr

Probably 5 years ago. But, in any event, keeping track of departing pax might be interesting info for DHS, but there is not much they can do once you've left the USA.
[The USA is one of the few countries that does not have exit controls (when leaving.) Based on the projected costs, I doubt that exit controls, even for foreigners will ever happen.]

nrr

Long before EU, US Passport holders, traveling by train, passed between countries with (one or two exceptions) with NO passport stamps--in many instances the pass-control agents would see the cover of the US pp, and go on. Now with EU, once you've arrived at your first port of entry, you can (in general) pass between other EU with NO pass-controls.
I thought it was "cool" back in the 60's and 70's to have visited 7 or 8 countries with only one or two stamps in my pp.

FlyingHoustonian

Sadly You'd be surprised; while it is somewhat rare the US has agents in certain countries with agreements in place allowing them to meet arriving "targets" or have agents of said country pick them up for them. Some planes have even been turned around in flight coming back to the USA. Again, rare, but it happens.

Not to digress to much but CBP can and does random "controls" and inspections at outbound jetways/boarding areas. I've had several IAH-FRA the last few years, for example, and I've had family get them on others as well. Often they are doing the cash search/grab (file that FinCEN 105) but they look for other things too. sometimes they even roll in remote computers linked to the same system used for inbounds.

Though your point is well taken that we don't have controls in the US, like the EU for example, where exiting can be a pain for some, or at least a delay.

I agree with you on the cost (and included infrastructure) being so high it won't happen. If anything it will be .......ised and a complete farce because the US will only do it half-@$$ed.

:D!

Firstly, not all Schengen countries are in the EU. While it may be "cool" to have the chance to visit 26 countries with only one entry and exit stamp, you can also visit 50 states without getting any stamps at all.

Given that the land area of the 50 states is twice that of the 26 countries, which one would be theoretically easier for someone to be found based on the last recorded use of their passport?


AA may have lost track of one of your flights, but most of the time, they don't! If you wanted to leave the US undetected in this manner, how exactly would you arrange it such that the exact flight you are on goes tech and you personally are rebooked onto a flight whose manifest is submitted erroneously?

SeriouslyLost

These days, "being found" is more a function of technology and population, not geography.

And on that basis, the EU is bigger than the US. IMO, it's much easier to track/find someone in the US because privacy laws are looser, snooping laws are stronger, the languages are closer, and it is harder to not leave a digital trail at some point.

GUWonder

It is much easier to track/find someone in Sweden, an EU country, than in the US. The population density of the two countries isn't that far apart and the technology available in Sweden is not generally superior to what there is available in the US.