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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Discussion: Constitutionality of BOS (Logan) BDO program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1248216-discussion-constitutionality-bos-logan-bdo-program.html)

steve65341 Aug 19, 2011 12:07 pm

Just went through the low B gate checkpoint here and there is no secondary interrogation yet.

TheGolfWidow Aug 19, 2011 12:18 pm


Originally Posted by DL_TIDE (Post 16953627)
BOS>ATL>JAX

Today as I queued, for the bottle water collection point, I was stopped and asked my final destination, reason I was in BOS, how long I was there, what company I worked for, type of work I did.

THIS IS TOTAL UNACCEPTABLE!!!
:td::td::td:

I bought a ticket, entered my traveler info, presented my identification.

FLAMERS WELCOMED!

The rest of where, what, why and length of my rights of FREEDOM to MOVEMENT is none I repeat NONE of TSA, i.e. (KGB,SS, and Gestapo)'s @#$!$@@ BUSINESS!

I'm curious as to how/if you answered.

mtkeller Aug 19, 2011 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by 14940674 (Post 16954259)
I am sure there are many people like you who negotiate Israel's airports every day. In Tel Aviv the security agents handle passengers with grace and respect, so their nervousness is not exacerbated or mistaken for a threat. We can only hope the TSA approaches this in similar fashion.

I was very nervous when I arrived at TLV, as I'd been in RUH the week before and this was my first visit to Israel. I got a number of questions (unsurprisingly), and at one point I needed to get some documentation out of my bag to show that I was going to be speaking at the Technion. I was apparently so visibly nervous that the agent told me not to be nervous, that this was just routine. Nothing he'd done had made me nervous, just the anticipation of it all. Much better after that.


Originally Posted by neko (Post 16954314)
Umm. I don't think this is modeled after El Al....

Not unless the TSA staff has suddenly become a lot better educated and lot better trained. And the US has suddenly become both much more homogeneous and more tolerant of racial, religious, and socio-economic profiling. And there's a lot less air travel...

I will have to say I was impressed by the education of the Israeli security guy. As part of the "Is he making this up?" phase, he wanted to know what sort of mathematics I do, and he actually made a comment that showed he was familiar with some of the area. I can't imagine getting that from a TSA agent.

14940674 Aug 19, 2011 12:31 pm


Originally Posted by neko (Post 16954425)
But most countries and airlines have perfect security records, as well. Even ones that have many more -- and a much greater diversity of -- passengers and destinations.

But most countries are not despised by their neighbors, or under constant threat of terrorist attack.


Originally Posted by CavePearl (Post 16954415)
Seriously? Do you really believe this to be true? These people will insist on the "right" answers - whatever the answer d'jour may be. The TDC have no concept. None.

No I don't believe it. I was simply expressing how the program should operate, but frankly my expectations are very low.

vvortex1 Aug 19, 2011 12:35 pm


Originally Posted by DL_TIDE (Post 16953627)
BOS>ATL>JAX

Today as I queued, for the bottle water collection point, I was stopped and asked my final destination, reason I was in BOS, how long I was there, what company I worked for, type of work I did.

THIS IS TOTAL UNACCEPTABLE!!!
:td::td::td:

Several years ago, my boarding passes used to get flagged for secondary screening frequently, and they'd ask questions along these lines. It is intrusive, but unless the tactic has changed, they're less interested in the answers than in how you act. It's fine to say that the purpose of your trip was "to visit family," or "to go to a conference" and unlike Immigration, they probably won't inquire any further, provided that you don't act nervous or cause a problem.

DeafBlonde Aug 19, 2011 12:37 pm

!
 

Originally Posted by baliktad (Post 16954176)
You're asking the wrong question. Confining our security efforts to the airport checkpoint is like making sure you have a lock on your bathroom door to protect yourself against a home invasion. Here's a better question: Where do you think terrorist efforts are better stopped?


...<shortened for brefity...but it bears repeating loudly, and frequently>

Effective security at the checkpoint should really be focused on catching the type of threat that intelligence is least capable of detecting: the lone wolf with a crazed plan. This sort of terrorist operates alone, has little or no planning, and is mostly likely using rudimentary weapons like a gun or knife. A simple bag x-ray and WTMD, with a localized wanding and/or pat-down for any alarms, is sufficient here. Ditch everything else, including the shoe carnival, the liquid ban, harrassing interrogations, and most importantly, the body scanners.


+100,000,000 ^
This is one of those posts that may me say, "Golly, I wish I had said that!!"

BRAVO to you, baliktad!!

Affection Aug 19, 2011 12:41 pm

I cannot believe I just read this on FT and it wasn't sarcasm.


Originally Posted by LeslieJam (Post 16953655)
I'm not a fan of TSA, but if it keeps us safe, it is worth it...

--Jon

Always Flyin Aug 19, 2011 12:42 pm

"Am I required to answer these questions before I am allowed to fly because, frankly, the answers are none of your da*n business..."

spd476 Aug 19, 2011 12:47 pm

I wouldn't mind the questioning if it leads to less gropes, the ability to leave my shoes on, carry more than a quart size bag of liquids through security, etc. However, I don't have the faith in the TSA to effectively perform this. They will probably still grope the same amount of passengers as before.

Boggie Dog Aug 19, 2011 12:53 pm


Originally Posted by 14940674 (Post 16954355)
The TSA is only using college educated agents for this assignment, which should help on that front. Also I think you misjudge the El Al approach. It is much more centered on training and skill than profiling. They would not have their perfect security record just by hassling every Arab passenger flying on El Al.

Not questioning you but just where did you see TSA state they will only use college educated screeners for this function?

BearX220 Aug 19, 2011 12:53 pm


Originally Posted by LeslieJam (Post 16953655)
... if it keeps us safe, it is worth it...

Oh, for God's sake.


Originally Posted by LeslieJam
...if modeled after El Al hard to argue their success in passenger safety.

It's not. El Al / Israeli security can never be reproduced in the US owing to the volume of traffic and lack of force professionalism.


Originally Posted by deltagoldflyer (Post 16953775)
They quiz you all the time in AMS & CDG before you fly home.

Those guys are a little different from TSA guys. Here we have guys who have never seen the word "Lufthansa" before and find it suspicious, or will ask you if Zurich is a place in the USA.

I actually have no problem with the AMS gate talks because I feel the inquisitor is intelligent and guided by a well-designed program. I think TSA BDO talks are ridiculous because after many years of TSA interactions I have no faith in the force to detect or prevent anything or stick to any sort of program. The average TSO I meet is a sad combination of Buford T. Justice and the elevator operator in Huxley's Brave New World. ("Roooof!")


Originally Posted by mtkeller (Post 16954655)
I will have to say I was impressed by the education of the Israeli security guy. As part of the "Is he making this up?" phase, he wanted to know what sort of mathematics I do, and he actually made a comment that showed he was familiar with some of the area.

There you go. That will not happen with a US BDO force. Different planet.

14940674 Aug 19, 2011 1:03 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 16954864)
Not questioning you but just where did you see TSA state they will only use college educated screeners for this function?

"At Logan, about 70 agents — all with college degrees — are undergoing training by an international consulting firm that includes a four-day classroom course and 24 hours of on-the-job experience, said TSA spokeswoman Ann Davis."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...icleid=1355725

PresRDC Aug 19, 2011 1:03 pm

Another stupid TSA scheme.

PTravel Aug 19, 2011 1:09 pm


Originally Posted by LeslieJam (Post 16953655)
I'm not a fan of TSA, but if it keeps us safe, it is worth it, and if modeled after El Al hard to argue their success in passenger safety.

1. It doesn't keep us safe.
2. Unlike Israel, we have a 4th and 5th Amendment that precludes this kind of government interrogation.

jtodd Aug 19, 2011 1:11 pm


Originally Posted by 14940674 (Post 16954927)
"At Logan, about 70 agents — all with college degrees — are undergoing training by an international consulting firm that includes a four-day classroom course and 24 hours of on-the-job experience, said TSA spokeswoman Ann Davis."

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...icleid=1355725

So they are the equivalent to a newly hired intern, with a week on the job! Good lord this organization is a disgrace!


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