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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Discussion: Constitutionality of BOS (Logan) BDO program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1248216-discussion-constitutionality-bos-logan-bdo-program.html)

Boggie Dog Aug 19, 2011 10:15 am


Originally Posted by BadgerFlyer91 (Post 16953750)
Feel free to drive. If we can get more effective security measures in place that actually are aimed at identifying problems I'm all for it. Much better than invasive pat downs of toddlers.

How do asking such questions create better security.

And a question for you; in the carve outs for Administrative Searches, limited to the searches for WEI in TSA's case, how do these questions comply with such limits?

RichardKenner Aug 19, 2011 10:18 am


Originally Posted by hooverer (Post 16953826)
if you are not comfortable with disclosing such basic info.

It's not "basic info", but highly confidential info, which may, in some cases, be protected by contract or law (e.g., an attorney asked the name of their client). How long I've been in a city or who I work for is none of anybody's business but my own.

TsaAbuseWatch Aug 19, 2011 10:20 am

I'll take the questions INSTEAD of the letting the BlueShirts get their jollies on my crotch, or take a dose of radiation from the untested machines.

However, in true TSA fashion, this will be in addition to the current abuses.

saulblum Aug 19, 2011 10:20 am


Originally Posted by LeslieJam (Post 16953655)
I'm not a fan of TSA, but if it keeps us safe, it is worth it, and if modeled after El Al hard to argue their success in passenger safety.

It is none of a government's agent's business why I am traveling within the USA, with whom I am staying, who I am visiting, and the nature of my trip. Would you feel the same way if the toll-taker asked you the same questions when crossing the George Washington Bridge from New Jersey to New York? Or if the token booth clerk (yes, I am dating myself) asked you the same when buying your MetroCard? Then why should I be asked these questions when I am flying from Chicago to San Francisco?

Madefornow Aug 19, 2011 10:25 am


Originally Posted by LeslieJam (Post 16953655)
I'm not a fan of TSA, but if it keeps us safe, it is worth it, and if modeled after El Al hard to argue their success in passenger safety.


passenger safety???? :rolleyes: when they manage the # of US airports and daily flight departures, then i will accept their methods

Boggie Dog Aug 19, 2011 10:38 am


Originally Posted by TsaAbuseWatch (Post 16953873)
I'll take the questions INSTEAD of the letting the BlueShirts get their jollies on my crotch, or take a dose of radiation from the untested machines.

However, in true TSA fashion, this will be in addition to the current abuses.

Playing 20 questions does not exempt a person from a TSA Feel Down or the Cancer Box.

exbayern Aug 19, 2011 10:42 am


Originally Posted by deltagoldflyer (Post 16953775)
Yep I'm kool with it. They quiz you all the time in AMS & CDG before you fly home. Get your GOES and then you can just point to the sticker on the back of your passport and they will see you are a trusted traveler. Worth the $100!:-:


Nope, they don't quiz us when we fly 'home' at those airports. Those flying on US carriers to the US perhaps, but not everyone.

This thread frightens me.

exbayern Aug 19, 2011 10:45 am


Originally Posted by hooverer (Post 16953826)
If you have traveled europe or elsewhere in the world then you know the game, and these TSA questions are not that intrusive.

What game? :confused: I am not asked these questions when I fly around Europe, or around Asia, or to Europe from Asia or vv. There is no such 'game'.

We had a game awhile back. We celebrated the end of that game just earlier this week in fact.

gobluetwo Aug 19, 2011 10:47 am

You're all taking the wrong approach here. Just turn it into a game (and not the exbayern type of game). Fun for the whole family!

final destination - "home, I wish!" or "If it's Thursday, it must be Cleveland" (which I once said on a Tuesday)
reason I was in BOS - "just passing through"
how long I was there - "not long enough!"
what company I worked for - "same as you - working for the man"
type of work I did - "consultant" (as my daughter once said when she was 4 - "daddy, that's not a real thing!")

Seriously, though, I just don't see how the execution of this program will result in any tangible positive outcome. The training they are supposed to be getting is said to be relatively minimal. We don't know that these people have a suitable background or temperament for this sort of behavioral analysis. We don't know the effectiveness of this analysis in such a brief encounter. I'm sure a bunch of shrinks somewhere came up with a manual instructing people to look for facial tics, shifty eyes, crossed arms, or whatever, which may or may not be indicative of anything beyond a fear of flying, gas, or a real intention to do harm (99.999999% sure it won't EVER be that last one). And, as this thread is proving, this is just another way for them to take the focus off the patdowns and body scans and improve their PR.

exbayern Aug 19, 2011 10:52 am

Ich bin Ausländerin, nichts versteh'

(I haven't seen this addressed yet, and based on the results of the 'pronounce your name' game I fear that things are going to turn uncomfortable for we furriners very quickly)

ecaarch Aug 19, 2011 10:53 am

No more callers please...we have a winner
 

Originally Posted by saulblum (Post 16953874)
It is none of a government's agent's business why I am traveling within the USA....

I expect and understand these kinds of questions when I cross borders. But when I am a US citizen traveling within the US, these type of questions certainly raise constitutional questions.

I mean, how would you feel explaining to a TSO that your reason for traveling was for reconstruction surgery following a mastectomy (and likely having to explain to the TSO what a mastectomy is because he is clueless)? What if your reason for traveling was for confidential meetings related to a possible M&A and an employee of a competitor was behind you in line? These aren't one-off situations. These are everyday occurrences.

None of us want a repeat of events from ten years ago. But what I do (legally) within the borders of my own country is nobody else's business.

javabytes Aug 19, 2011 10:56 am


Originally Posted by DL_TIDE (Post 16953627)
BOS>ATL>JAX

Today as I queued, for the bottle water collection point, I was stopped and asked my final destination, reason I was in BOS, how long I was there, what company I worked for, type of work I did.

1. "Do you need help reading the boarding pass I just handed you?
2. "Exercising my constitutional rights to travel freely."
3. "Somewhere between 6 minutes and 37 years."
4. "One that does investigative work."
5. "Asking people stupid questions for no reason. Are you looking to change jobs?"

javabytes Aug 19, 2011 10:58 am


Originally Posted by BadgerFlyer91 (Post 16953750)
Feel free to drive. If we can get more effective security measures in place that actually are aimed at identifying problems I'm all for it. Much better than invasive pat downs of toddlers.

Feel free to walk when they start doing this at the entrance to expressways, or at checkpoints entering major cities. :rolleyes:

Caradoc Aug 19, 2011 10:59 am


Originally Posted by aviatorzz (Post 16953681)
About damn time they are modeling after El Al's security.

It's too bad they're not modeling their professionalism and politeness after El Al's personnel, too.

cardiomd Aug 19, 2011 11:02 am


Originally Posted by gobluetwo (Post 16954046)
You're all taking the wrong approach here. Just turn it into a game. Fun for the whole family!

final destination - "home, I wish!" or "If it's Thursday, it must be Cleveland" (which I once said on a Tuesday)
reason I was in BOS - "just passing through"
how long I was there - "not long enough!"
what company I worked for - "same as you - working for the man"
type of work I did - "consultant" (as my daughter once said when she was 4 - "daddy, that's not a real thing!")

Well, the annoying thing is that this answer may then forward you directly to the scope and grope. Knowing how most blueshirts behave this will likely degenerate into retaliatory high-screening for coy answers, or just simple racism / "Mexican-hunting", and you'll have to wait while the questioner flirts with the hot girls in front of you. Ugh.

Granted the blueshirts they approve for questioning duty will be "college-educated" and hopefully less prone to this. Similarly the gropers they call in, I've noticed, to be less hotheaded blueshirts. Most likely after the 40th person complains about the groper the TSAH is removed from groping duty. Anybody else notice this?

Even at the border, where questioning is accepted and supposedly highly trained, I have gotten into real trouble for "coy" answers. Once I was going to visit my little nephew in another country and said my purpose of trip was "to play a lot of video games" and smiled. I was dressed casually. When the agent heard me state my profession she rolled her eyes, clearly not believing me, and sent me to one of the most invasive, horrible secondary screens I have ever endured, everything short of stripsearch... I predict the same thing is going to happen in the future. The questioning, poorly implemented, is NOT a good thing.


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