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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Discussion: Constitutionality of BOS (Logan) BDO program (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1248216-discussion-constitutionality-bos-logan-bdo-program.html)

Yoshi212 Aug 19, 2011 4:00 pm

I'm wish you. The agents at TLV are very good at what they do. They approach with a disarming demeanor and explain things simply. Even my crazy want to be Massad agent Mother doesn't freak out with them. They will ask what they determine is needed to make sure you're not a threat but they ask in such a manner not to entice a negative situation....something the TSA needs lessons in immediately. After going through TLV Europe is nothing and US TSA are just disrespectful. *Generalization*


Originally Posted by mtkeller (Post 16953690)
In before the move to TS&S.

I have mixed views on this one. I've been grilled by Israeli security at TLV while departing with a Saudi visa in my passport. It was done very respectfully, and I understood the need for security. After that, the WTMD and X-ray for my bag were super easy. However, this is conditioned on well-trained agents doing the questioning in a professional manner. I don't have confidence that the TSA can carry things out in that manner, and there is a bit of an issue of whether it's even constitutional in the US.


TheGolfWidow Aug 19, 2011 4:13 pm


Originally Posted by mikeef (Post 16955357)
I think this was in response to the original "How would you make the TSA better?"

I stick with my original suggestion.

Mike

I quoted the OP -- I'm curious about DL_TIDE's response to the screener's questions.

T-the-B Aug 19, 2011 4:16 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 16955957)
It will be interesting for us to document and start to build a data base of how they react once this becomes widespread and we start getting in their faces or simply refusing to answer. As I think I have asserted before, these confrontations should be easy to record because you still have access to all of your stuff.

You raise a very good point. How will the questioner react if a passenger's first response to a question is to very deliberately take out his phone, recorder, etc., start recording and say something like, "The date is _____, time is _____. I am at the screening location for Concourse _______. With me is a TSA employee who wishes to question me. Agent, please state your full name for the record."? I wonder if the extensive, 4-day training course covers that scenario.

CavePearl Aug 19, 2011 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by neko (Post 16955057)
+1

"For my own safety, I don't give personal information to strangers."

Exactly the answer I gave at HOU a while back, and the TDC asked me DY...T. He wouldn't let me through until I gave him my name. :rolleyes:

goalie Aug 19, 2011 4:21 pm


Originally Posted by avidflyer (Post 16953640)
This is a pilot program in BOS that started today. It is expected to roll out to LAX in the next month. Modeled on El Al.

It's been out for a little over a week now.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...oning-bos.html

GUWonder Aug 19, 2011 4:26 pm

Will some in the government try to bait some fool into becoming a "terrorist" wannabee and send them to the airport to be caught by the TSA clowns in order to chalk up a "victory" in the "war on terror" so as to ramp up this voodoo "security" BDO dog and pony show at airports near and far?

TheGolfWidow Aug 19, 2011 4:33 pm


Originally Posted by CavePearl (Post 16956085)
Exactly the answer I gave at HOU a while back, and the TDC asked me DY...T. He wouldn't let me through until I gave him my name. :rolleyes:

That is a different boondoggle than the new expanded behavior detection boondoggle...no?

CavePearl Aug 19, 2011 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow (Post 16956143)
That is a different boondoggle than the new expanded behavior detection boondoggle...no?

At HOU all the boondoggles are all now lumped into one. They chit-chat, they ask personal questions and all pretend to be BDOs. How do we separate new behavior detection from old behavior detection? For that matter, how do we distinguish anything from anything if we don't know what the SOP is in the first place? Sigh.

I need a drink. I think I'll pull out a couple of mini-bottles now.

Salud! :p

kburges Aug 19, 2011 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by saulblum (Post 16953874)
It is none of a government's agent's business why I am traveling within the USA, with whom I am staying, who I am visiting, and the nature of my trip. Would you feel the same way if the toll-taker asked you the same questions when crossing the George Washington Bridge from New Jersey to New York? Or if the token booth clerk (yes, I am dating myself) asked you the same when buying your MetroCard? Then why should I be asked these questions when I am flying from Chicago to San Francisco?

It's based on the north Korean doctrine.

RichardKenner Aug 19, 2011 4:43 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 16955683)
Being physically unable to assume and hold the position in the NoS subjects a person to a thorough screening....

Weren't we told in some thread that that's not true, that such people are sent to the WTMD?

FliesWay2Much Aug 19, 2011 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 16956003)

In the comments section, "Ray" really hit the nail on the head:


Freedom OF speech includes freedom FROM speech. Government should NEVER be empowered to compel speech. What happens if incriminating statements are made in the course of these interviews? When I''m traveling, the LAST people I care to have ANY conversation with is TSA. So what now? Either speak or you forgo your flight? And with fares being non-refundable, I'm clearly suffering as a result, so how is this not a denial of my right to due process?

BY Ray on 08/15/2011 at 18:45

jackonferry Aug 19, 2011 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 16955222)
It's not invasive, it's not unconstitutional and is used to make judgments about whether some people need secondary inspection.

Fortunately, it will only take a few prosecutions of people who deliberately lie to TSA (18 USC Sec. 1001 provides a 5-year felony penalty for that) before the jokesters stop giving poor advice.

In the meantime, BOS-ATL is easily driveable and a wonderful view of scenic I-95!

It's starting to sound like another "don't mess with my author-i-tay" approach. You know, retribution for when you don't follow silly, unpublished rules, or when you try to exercise your rights.

DeafBlonde Aug 19, 2011 5:12 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 16956111)
Will some in the government try to bait some fool into becoming a "terrorist" wannabee and send them to the airport to be caught by the TSA clowns in order to chalk up a "victory" in the "war on terror" so as to ramp up this voodoo "security" BDO dog and pony show at airports near and far?

Humpfh! Why bother going to that much trouble when they can just claim (as some do now) that terrorists haven't blown up any airplanes because they are obviosly so intimidated by this voodoo magic "security" procedure, that they know they would be caught if they even tried. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

exbayern Aug 19, 2011 5:26 pm


Originally Posted by 14940674 (Post 16954259)
I am sure there are many people like you who negotiate Israel's airports every day. In Tel Aviv the security agents handle passengers with grace and respect, so their nervousness is not exacerbated or mistaken for a threat. We can only hope the TSA approaches this in similar fashion.

So someone identified as a potential threat just has to say that they are a child of the DDR times and came from a family shattered by the regime and have repressed memories of crossings at Marienborn and being monitored by the Stasi in childhood and then they are simply no longer a threat?

This sounds like a very good improvement in security...

:confused:

Fisher1949 Aug 19, 2011 5:32 pm

The entire program is an utter waste of time and an excuse to maintain TSA's bloated budget. Nothing more than another jobs program wasting taxpayer money on useless jobs for the otherwise unemployable.

For frequent fliers this will quickly devolve into the same kind of "canned" responses used to get through customs. A bunch of vague answers interspersed with a few fabrications and a grain of truth.

Expect to see yet another string of abuse stories in the news, a few lawsuits and more double speak from TSA trying to explain their way out of criticism from the public, press and lawmakers.


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