TheGolfWidow

I know. That's why I said it was a video of what happens when the child refuses when the parent with with him.

I'm a nurse, and I have certainly been involved in issues with children who are clearly having no part of a procedure (etc.) But, in my career, I've never had to touch a child's genitals by force and I never would. It's just not a line I, personally, would cross, whether I had parental consent or not.

Touching a child's genitals by force, with or without parental consent, to get on an airplane? You'd have to be crazy to do it.

sbagdon

Yet the TSA will say it's not the TSA that's forcing the completion of the security process, it's the parent(s), and that it's the parent(s) that can walk away at any time, yet the parent(s) have decided that entering the sterile area is important enough to complete the search. Just saying...

tanja

So what if a minor refuse to be groped and touched.?
The guardian might already have left the airport.

TSO tells the minor "you cant fly and leave the airport".

Who is now responsible for the minors safety?

Sure not the parents since they did not know that their child would be molested.

tanja

Thank you for being a good nurse and an adult.

I was one of those kids that always said no and made a big scene.
Most of the time I got respected. However there were a few times that I was forced just becuase I was a minor.
It left scars. To this day I only go to a doctor that I would know very well and if I really have to go and see one.
And I am in health to.

TheGolfWidow

What of a parent that arrives there and does not know that part of the screening could include touching the child's genitals? They are touched before the parent has had any chance to consent OR object.

I can easily see how a family might arrive at the checkpoint and think that screening includes walking through a metal detector, perhaps having a hand wand run, and having belongings x-rayed on a conveyor belt or inspected by hand. Then, suddenly, and having never been told "Oh, by the way, I am going to be touching his genitals," someone has touched the child's genitals.

That's not being "able to walk away at any time," that's not thinking that "getting on the plane is more important than anything else"....that's the result of a conscious decision at TSa to fail to communicate the nature of the patdown. That's not consent; that's the TSA forcing the completion of the process, and touching a child's genitals in the process. They are STUPID to do it, and they are lucky that they haven't had any problems as a result.....so far.

sbagdon

If UM, for most airlines, the guardian has to do a hand-off at the gate to the FA, then the final-segment FA does a hand-off to the destination guardian. For every moment after the minor is out of the custody of the guardian, an airline employee has "ownership" of that minor's transport. If connecting, an employee will walk the minor from flight to flight, to get food, and (if the airport has the facilities) taken to a rec-room (staffed by an airline employee). For overnight irops, the minor will be assigned to an FA, and taken to a hotel, then returned with that FA to the airport the next day.

So I'm starting to think that the airline is at risk, if there's a gate pat-down at a connecting city, or if there's overnight irops and the minor has to go through security again and is randomly selected for patdown. So... has the airline thought of their liability, in regards to UM transport? Unless the airline already has, and the UM form indemnifies the airline from the security process.

If not UM, then it all falls on the parent (imo).

TheGolfWidow

How can a parent (the one in the OP, for instance) consent to a search of their child when they are neither there nor given any information about the nature of the search? We're not dealing with a police incident here or a medical emergency....the child is trying to get a ride to Gramma's.

barbell

Firstly, thank you for your contribution to society as a competent and caring adult.

But what of all this talk of genitals? These TSA people talk only of "resistance" and get all offended and run to momma supervisor if one figures out that "resistance" is really euphemism for "genitals".

Or better yet, when one touches a TSA clerk in the same area that the TSA clerk touches people at the checkpoint it becomes "sexual assault" or "assault of a federal officer", but when it's done on a child of 13, or anyone other than a TSA clerk for that matter, you asked for it.

tanja

Your first paragraf doesnt always work. when my kids were minors and had fly on their own (international flights). I had to pay a sum for help at the airport.
This did not always work out as it suppossed to.

and I cant even imagine being working for an airline and accept this to happen to a child. And a child who I dont know. I would be terrified of the childs parents.

tanja

I think that TSA thinks just because they are minors they cant speak up. And are under total control of the grown ups.
And the kids just have to obey or else.

barbell

The first paragraph is mostly correct, as my brother and I used to fly around the country visiting relatives on summer vacation. I can't even imagine being that age in today's environment.

As to the airline's/the employee's responsibility, I have seen a few times where a gate agent escorts the UM and the charge dropping them off through the NoS-free employee lines where there is far less scrutiny than for other travelers. There may be a quiet move on the part of gate agents where they are proactively doing so to avoid the whole question. I've actually seen them pull people out of line to do so.

mybodyismyown

I suspect that if a 13-year-old girl tried to refuse a genital grope, the TSA would bully her into it. They would threaten her, lie to her, tell her her parents would be mad at her, tell her she was going to jail, tell her all sorts of intimidating things until she let them have their way with her. Such threats work with adults all the time, and adolescents are even easier to bully and to deceive than adults are. I can't help wishing, though, for a savvy and educated and confident young woman who's under 18 to tell them no, no, a thousand times no, it's my body and you can't do that to me, and for that incident to make it into the papers.

sbagdon

No idea... I guess that's the entire point of this thread (or at least a sub-point)?

TheGolfWidow

Maybe so! I just can't imagine the hired handler signing off on their charge being groped. I, too, would be terrified of the parents' reaction. "You let them DO WHAT???" I just couldn't let them -- I don't want that buck stopping with me.

Surely, this discussion has taken place somewhere at TSA?? Or are they groping kids who are traveling alone without having considered one or two possible problems that might arise as a result?

TheGolfWidow

I suspect most of the time, they are so caught off guard that the procedures are over before they know what is happening. It's just "Go there, put your feet here, here's my gloves, there's your resistance." All that lying, intimidation, threatening, bullying....never becomes necessary.

Children have been socialized to be obedient to the instructions of authority figures, and by the time they've gone there, put their feet here, seen the gloves, and felt the resistance....they've been molested at the airport before they ever had a chance to object, if they even felt empowered to object at all. "Have a nice flight, young lady!"