Militarize TSA?
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP-6MM; Starwood Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 192
If TSA eliminated all of the BS in airports including:
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
- BDO Dragnet
- Gate Screenings
- 3 TSOs per NoS
- Parking Lot Wanderers
- Air Marshals
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
TSA is just another big government program. Efficiency, accountability and customer service is not required. Let's just throw our tax dollars at the wall. And we wonder about a debt crisis?
Another reason for active duty military (some armed, most unarmed) replacing the TSA as we know it today. Take 50,000 off the government payroll and replace them with men and women already on the payroll.
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,980
We agree more often than either of us wants to admit. The basics are pretty much the same for us, with some differences on policy. I think it is a matter of working on policy between us that causes us friction. I can't leave here yet, my job is not done yet - until the major arguments between the gang here and TSA is about policy, and not unprofessional behavior, I can't leave yet.
TSA should not have an Administrator with a law enforcement background. Screening travelers is not a law enforcement activity and treating the task as such gets what you have today, an agency that is not respected from any segment of the country.
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,980
Good points, except my opinion expressed about FAMs. I equate TSA clerks to pelicans, just standing around on a dock. On the other hand, pelicans could be more effective.
TSA is just another big government program. Efficiency, accountability and customer service is not required. Let's just throw our tax dollars at the wall. And we wonder about a debt crisis?
Another reason for active duty military (some armed, most unarmed) replacing the TSA as we know it today. Take 50,000 off the government payroll and replace them with men and women already on the payroll.
TSA is just another big government program. Efficiency, accountability and customer service is not required. Let's just throw our tax dollars at the wall. And we wonder about a debt crisis?
Another reason for active duty military (some armed, most unarmed) replacing the TSA as we know it today. Take 50,000 off the government payroll and replace them with men and women already on the payroll.
I suspect that you never served in the US military and don't understand Ops Tempo.
#50
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP-6MM; Starwood Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 192
Where do the 50,000 come from? Let's see, nearly 1.5 million active duty members. Cut the TSA employment level from 50,000 to 0. Replace them with 2% of active duty personnel= 30,000. There are 80,000 troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of that number, ironically 30,000 are set to be withdrawn from the middle east within the next year.
I suspect you do not fly that often and subjected to the moronic and incompetent behavior of the TSA as it is today with no change in sight.
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,980
You suspect correctly that I had not served in the military, but have complete and the utmost respect for the men and women who do.
Where do the 50,000 come from? Let's see, nearly 1.5 million active duty members. Cut the TSA employment level from 50,000 to 0. Replace them with 2% of active duty personnel= 30,000. There are 80,000 troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of that number, ironically 30,000 are set to be withdrawn from the middle east within the next year.
I suspect you do not fly that often and subjected to the moronic and incompetent behavior of the TSA as it is today with no change in sight.
Where do the 50,000 come from? Let's see, nearly 1.5 million active duty members. Cut the TSA employment level from 50,000 to 0. Replace them with 2% of active duty personnel= 30,000. There are 80,000 troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Of that number, ironically 30,000 are set to be withdrawn from the middle east within the next year.
I suspect you do not fly that often and subjected to the moronic and incompetent behavior of the TSA as it is today with no change in sight.
I fly about 6 to 8 round trips per year currently. I have had some serious issues with TSA on some of those trips.
I am no fan of TSA as currently constructed and I am in favor of taking positive steps to either retire TSA as we know it or at least force TSA to be responsive to its owners, the citizens of the United States.
I just don't agree with your idea of using military to make those changes.
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP-6MM; Starwood Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 192
I flew for the military for 23 years, just not as nice accommodations as a commercial aircraft.
I fly about 6 to 8 round trips per year currently. I have had some serious issues with TSA on some of those trips.
I am no fan of TSA as currently constructed and I am in favor of taking positive steps to either retire TSA as we know it or at least force TSA to be responsive to its owners, the citizens of the United States.
I just don't agree with your idea of using military to make those changes.
I fly about 6 to 8 round trips per year currently. I have had some serious issues with TSA on some of those trips.
I am no fan of TSA as currently constructed and I am in favor of taking positive steps to either retire TSA as we know it or at least force TSA to be responsive to its owners, the citizens of the United States.
I just don't agree with your idea of using military to make those changes.
Here's another thought behind my suggestion and in consideration of the current financial crisis in the US, the elimination of some $8-9 billion from the budget earmarked to the TSA. Also, the removing of active duty from war zones might create a downsizing of our military. Therefore, revert 2% of the military to airport security, maintain levels of military and completely do away with the folks in the blue shirts.
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,980
Thank you for your service! And I agree with you up until your last sentence.
Here's another thought behind my suggestion and in consideration of the current financial crisis in the US, the elimination of some $8-9 billion from the budget earmarked to the TSA. Also, the removing of active duty from war zones might create a downsizing of our military. Therefore, revert 2% of the military to airport security, maintain levels of military and completely do away with the folks in the blue shirts.
Here's another thought behind my suggestion and in consideration of the current financial crisis in the US, the elimination of some $8-9 billion from the budget earmarked to the TSA. Also, the removing of active duty from war zones might create a downsizing of our military. Therefore, revert 2% of the military to airport security, maintain levels of military and completely do away with the folks in the blue shirts.
#54
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: RA, AA Plat
Posts: 58
#55
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 593
Good points, except my opinion expressed about FAMs. I equate TSA clerks to pelicans, just standing around on a dock. On the other hand, pelicans could be more effective.
TSA is just another big government program. Efficiency, accountability and customer service is not required. Let's just throw our tax dollars at the wall. And we wonder about a debt crisis?
Another reason for active duty military (some armed, most unarmed) replacing the TSA as we know it today. Take 50,000 off the government payroll and replace them with men and women already on the payroll.
TSA is just another big government program. Efficiency, accountability and customer service is not required. Let's just throw our tax dollars at the wall. And we wonder about a debt crisis?
Another reason for active duty military (some armed, most unarmed) replacing the TSA as we know it today. Take 50,000 off the government payroll and replace them with men and women already on the payroll.
#57




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Some jobs are just to big for one person. Trying to bring change to TSA will be impossible as long as the current so called leadership is in place.
TSA should not have an Administrator with a law enforcement background. Screening travelers is not a law enforcement activity and treating the task as such gets what you have today, an agency that is not respected from any segment of the country.
TSA should not have an Administrator with a law enforcement background. Screening travelers is not a law enforcement activity and treating the task as such gets what you have today, an agency that is not respected from any segment of the country.
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,980
Every job starts with one person. I may never be able to make changes that have an impact on you, but I may inspire or mentor someone that does. I personally do not care what someone has as a background, some of the most ingenious ideas of improving security came from folks that had never worked in security. Some of the most perfect military tactical procedures came from farmers. If Pistole is able to make positive changes for the organization, then I am all for it and will work as hard as I can to push those changes as far as I can. I think that the administrator has some excellent ideas, I also think that some of the ideas coming out are not so excellent. It would be the same if you or I were in his shoes, some of our ideas would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and some would suck the sour right out of a lemon. It is a matter of moving those things that seem to be the best for all involved forward. Currently, many folks think that the procedures for the patdown are wrong, they think that the AIT is wrong, they think we shouldn't screen (not you per se, but some folks) the elderly or children. The problem with patdowns is trying to make certain threat items don't get on the planes - how do you solve that? The problem qith AIT is it gives you a better chance of finding threat items that are non-metallic (such as explosives) - how do you address that? The problem with not screening any subset of passengers, is it leaves another gaping hole in the screening process - how do you address that? I know that you have given viable alternatives to most of what I have mentioned, if not all, but change comes slow in this arena, especially when the pendulum is swinging away from an attack (such as 9/11). I don't know that this is necessarily wrong or right, I think that the combination of caution and fear of what is out there (and come on, if you were in the military that long, you have been to other countries and seen what some of the cultures are like, you KNOW what is out there) will keep the removal of screening procedures or rolling back of procedures slow. I think some of the biggest things that have helped us to keep from being hit repeatedly (on a smaller scale) is the relative lack of sophistication of those that wish to do us harm, and the intelligence systems that stop tons of things like that before they mature. The TSA is a part of the sharp end, in that they make getting something onto aviation much more difficult than it used to be. Is TSA perfect? Hell no. Is TSA a part of the prevention process? Yes. Can it be better? Hell yes, and hopefully I will be a part of making it better as we move forward. There are tons of things coming for TSA, read the press releases coming out now - you cna probably scratch any timelines associated with them, because most things move slower in real life than on paper, but I think you will like some of the changes and hate some (just like I will). Hopefully, we as an organization can move more towards being professional, and efficient, and better at our core missions - which should always be the goal.
I think Pistole is a freaken fool. He lies to Congress and he lies to America. Pistole is not the answer TSA needs, in fact I would suggest he be sent to the Super Max for 15 to 20 years.
As far as gaps in screening tell me that not screening airport workers or cargo 100% of the time is not a gap that anyone couldn't drive a Mack truck through.
TSA waste to much time on doing things that add zilch to security. The War on Water for instance. Or Shoes, comparing ID's to Boarding Passes, none of those things add even marginally to security.
TSA is over staffed and has to much worthless equipment, i.e., Strip Search Machines that even GAO suggest would not have prevented the Underwear Bomber had they been in place, ETD testers that can't identify a dangerous substance from one that is perfectly harmless as examples. Lets not even bring up the millions of dollars of ETP that TSA tossed in the trash since TSA employees were incapable of maintaining perfectly good equipment. Really gives us confidence that the Porno Viewer Cancer Boxes will be well maintained.
On top of that TSA seems fixated on feeling up old ladies and young children, we all know those are your most likely terrorist in this country. Then TSA in all of its wisdom decides to rename body parts to "resistance" and files reports when people question just what a resistance is. Yes TSA is the agency that is known for honesty and should be trusted, right!
I'm sorry, TSA is a failed experiment and TSA and all TSA employees should be disbanded.
I asked in another thread of a TSA poster and did not get an answer, Do you think TSA is better received today by the public than say a year ago?
I would suggest not and TSA is clearly creating a wider gap in the public's trust with every passing day.
#59
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,223
By finally coming to grips with the reality that lax gate security wasn't the cause of 9/11? As long as your agency continues to follow and propagate this lie, nothing will change.
#60
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
What made 9/11 so devastating, and took us by such surprise, were the terrorists' change in intent: nobody had ever hijacked planes with the intent of crashing them into buildings before. The real concerns were guns, bombs or other items that could down an aircraft. But terrorists either hijacked planes in order to get demands met or else managed to slip bombs onto them to destroy them in midair. I'll go so far as to say that hijackings weren't really that great a concern because they typically ended one of three ways:
1. Hijacker demands were met, hostages released
2. Hijackers taken out (captured or killed) by authorities once plane landed, hostages released
3. Hijackers surrendered once plane landed, hostages released
Unfortunately, we became so afraid that we never asked ourselves what it was we were really afraid of. We were afraid of the unknown, since that was what really devastated us on 9/11; a form of attack we were unfamiliar with. Another 9/11 was prevented the day the flight deck doors were reinforced and most if not all subsequent attempts could be thwarted in advance by replacing the NOS with proper document scanning technology capable of checking someone's credentials against known watch lists and ensuring their legitimacy.



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