Militarize TSA?
Jul 23, 2011, 9:10 am
#136
In Memoriam
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Jul 23, 2011, 9:38 am
#137
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
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Indirectly, though ... you are. If people were not afraid of terrorist attacks on commercial aircraft, your employer wouldn't exist, and you would need to find other employment. You profit financially because of the fear that drove the creation of the TSA in the first place.
Admittedly, this is an awfully indirect connection ... but it's worth noting.
Admittedly, this is an awfully indirect connection ... but it's worth noting.
Fear is one of those double edged swords, it causes problems for the folks that are in a position to fear something, and then the folks that are purveyors of that fear, also fear losing the gains (power, land, money, etc)they make because of it. It is the same cycle that plays out all over the third rock in so many different formats we could spend the rest of our lives trying to find an end to that discussion!
Jul 23, 2011, 10:37 am
#138
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Posts: 8,389
Bart ... I largely agree with you. Just want to quibble with one point:
Of course, there are "uniforms" and there are "uniforms". The scrubs worn by nurses at a hospital or doctor's office are uniforms. So are the polo shirts and khakis worn by Best Buy employees. And so are the dress shirts, ties, coats, and badges worn by LEOs. All of them create an image of professionalism appropriate to their setting.
I have no problem with a uniform code for TSOs. It's helpful to recognize, at a glance, who at a checkpoint is a TSO and who is not. And uniforms can help to remind the wearer of the professional standards expected of those wearing the uniform.
But, as you stated, one can create a uniform that doesn't attempt to convey the mistaken impression (to wearer or passenger) that a TSO is a LEO.
Of course, there are "uniforms" and there are "uniforms". The scrubs worn by nurses at a hospital or doctor's office are uniforms. So are the polo shirts and khakis worn by Best Buy employees. And so are the dress shirts, ties, coats, and badges worn by LEOs. All of them create an image of professionalism appropriate to their setting.
I have no problem with a uniform code for TSOs. It's helpful to recognize, at a glance, who at a checkpoint is a TSO and who is not. And uniforms can help to remind the wearer of the professional standards expected of those wearing the uniform.
But, as you stated, one can create a uniform that doesn't attempt to convey the mistaken impression (to wearer or passenger) that a TSO is a LEO.
And that's the point I was getting at. I like blue only because white is a stain magnet. The blue polo shirts worn by baggage screeners minus the embroidered TSA badge but with a TSA logo and perhaps the words TSO underneath it would suffice in my book. Makes it easy for passengers to identify TSOs and takes away the over-bearing appearance that a badge and LEO-type uniform tends to convey from time to time.
Jul 23, 2011, 12:10 pm
#139
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
It has been explained here what the differences between the older patdown and the SPD are. There has been an increase in patdowns, but (I can only speak for here) it has not been a large jump in percentage. There may be a difference elsewhere, but our numbers ump has not been nearly as much as I read about here.
If your old frisk is what Dean said, then the sliding/rubbing motion and the degree of invasivity, inner thigh up to the crotch etc, are the key differences. He did not mention the hair, but should have, as that is likewise offensive. Those new things introduced last October simply HAVE to go. They are invasive and offensive. You can get what you need the old way and dammit, LEOs don't do that are are upset when they experience this at the airports when they can't do it themselves on non perps.
I think there are or there would be a ton more stories about things than the handful you get now. Even with the complaints listed here, as well as the media, the complainst represent a small percentage of all passengers that fly - that doesn't make it right or acceptable to treat passengers unprofessionally, it simply means that the unprofessional treatment is not as widespread as some would believe.
Jul 24, 2011, 2:52 am
#140
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
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We all make mistakes from time to time. It appears that the area for most concern is explosives at this point, and that is good, explosives give you the best chance to destroy an airplane if that is your goal. While other weapons and such can be a threat to the passengers on board on a smaller scale, the explosives place all of the passengers in danger with the real possiblity of folks on the ground under the plane as well. All that being said, I agree with you that all folks should go through a WTMD.
Jul 24, 2011, 1:49 pm
#141
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I think TSOs should wear comfortable polo-type shirts with equally comfortable slacks without any badges; perhaps a TSA logo embroidered on the shirt. I also believe there should be a physical fitness standard for TSOs not because it "looks better," but because it is the smart thing to do. Missed days due to employee illness, injury or other health-related issues have a huge adverse impact on screening operations. I believe that if TSA established a fitness standard; negotiated corporate rates with local gyms to encourage gym membership by employees; and included fitness standards in employee evaluations, then there would be a huge reduction in the number of sick days taken due to illness, injury or other similar situations. It's a smart investment.
When I was in the Army I saw a lot of idiots get ahead based on good PT test scores. That makes sense when the job is to run around killing people, but when you job is not dependent on your physical abilities the extra stress of passing a PT test will shift their focus away from keeping passengers safe. Do you want a screener that can run fast but sucks at their job or a screener that is good at their job but has a gut? Do you want a screener to go on an insane diet that potentially impairs their thought processes just so they can make height-weight standards and keep their job? There are physical jobs and technical jobs and TSO is a technical job so the workers should be held to higher mental standards.
Gym memberships and health programs are great to provide to employees and incentive programs based on physical activities can motivate employes to get off their butt. Just don't tie their job performance to a random standard that has nothing to do with their actual job performance.
Jul 24, 2011, 3:25 pm
#142
Join Date: Dec 2004
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We know from efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq that ordinary military units are not geared toward engendering favorable PR with those it encounters. As others have noted above, the purpose of the U.S. military rightly so is not to sing "Kumbayah", but rather to kill enemies and to destroy things. Current TSA employees have exhibited a concerning streak about treating American travelers as enemies, guilty until proven innocent. Based on training and purposes of the Army, and for that matter the Marines, one would think that ordinary military units would be even more inclined to treat ordinary Americans more like criminals than like travelers.
Jul 24, 2011, 4:22 pm
#143
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Actually, since the beginning, TSA has given FSDs leeway in making such local policies that are more restrictive than what TSA itself requires. You just can't make something less restrictive. So long as the FSD in question is capable of justifying it to Washington's satisfaction, then it typically stands.
I would note that it would be next to impossible to justify any kind of massive difference, such as... oh... Nashville adding red bonnet-style hats to the prohibited items list, or something, and Seattle deciding that only Hefty-brand plastic bags can be used to take LGA through the checkpoint. Typically, these differences are minor, like with the iPad stuff, or whether or not shoes need to be in a bin or not. TSA's official baseline rule is that it doesn't matter if shoes are in a bin or not. Some airports have made local policies that require shoes to be in a bin, others that require them to be directly on the belt. While I consider such an argument to be silly, I'm sure they have what they are just absolutely sure are good reasons for having such local policies.
That's how I understand it, anyway. We only have one local policy in our hub/spoke that I'm aware of that differs from what TSA brass says to do, so things are kept fairly simple on our end.
Incidentally, I've also heard from passengers that Dulles and Las Vegas also require small electronics, like iPads and Kindles and Nooks and such, to be removed from carry-on to be put through the x-ray.
That would be a correct assumption, based on my own observations. If I had to just completely make up a number and pretend it's the least bit statistically relevant, I'd say that it's four clip-on styles to every one button-on style. Though lately the all-plastic clip-on style has become more popular, too.
I would note that it would be next to impossible to justify any kind of massive difference, such as... oh... Nashville adding red bonnet-style hats to the prohibited items list, or something, and Seattle deciding that only Hefty-brand plastic bags can be used to take LGA through the checkpoint. Typically, these differences are minor, like with the iPad stuff, or whether or not shoes need to be in a bin or not. TSA's official baseline rule is that it doesn't matter if shoes are in a bin or not. Some airports have made local policies that require shoes to be in a bin, others that require them to be directly on the belt. While I consider such an argument to be silly, I'm sure they have what they are just absolutely sure are good reasons for having such local policies.
That's how I understand it, anyway. We only have one local policy in our hub/spoke that I'm aware of that differs from what TSA brass says to do, so things are kept fairly simple on our end.
Incidentally, I've also heard from passengers that Dulles and Las Vegas also require small electronics, like iPads and Kindles and Nooks and such, to be removed from carry-on to be put through the x-ray.
That would be a correct assumption, based on my own observations. If I had to just completely make up a number and pretend it's the least bit statistically relevant, I'd say that it's four clip-on styles to every one button-on style. Though lately the all-plastic clip-on style has become more popular, too.
TSA delenda est.
Jul 24, 2011, 4:47 pm
#144
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Absolutely true, which is why I indicate that if the TSO does things by the SOP, there is no sexual assault. I can't comment reliably about things I do not have firsthand knowledge of.
So, sliding along the contours of the body areas identified for search is more offensive than squeezing that particular area repeatedly in the bend/feel and crush method? The sliding has less physical impact on the passenger (as you are not pushing and prodding them, you are merely following the contours seeking to find something that is not supposed to be there), and is also more linear as well as taking less time in general (based on personal experience, I can't speak for HSV, but for me it takes less time). Why would sliding be more offensive than patting down?
So, sliding along the contours of the body areas identified for search is more offensive than squeezing that particular area repeatedly in the bend/feel and crush method? The sliding has less physical impact on the passenger (as you are not pushing and prodding them, you are merely following the contours seeking to find something that is not supposed to be there), and is also more linear as well as taking less time in general (based on personal experience, I can't speak for HSV, but for me it takes less time). Why would sliding be more offensive than patting down?
The Captain America-wannabe TSO on the far side of the MMW said that he needed to pat down the left leg of my shorts. Now, Captain America did not get anywhere near private areas. But what was the purpose of this pat down? Surely the MMW could resolve the boarding pass in my pocket. If it could not, then why have passengers waste time going through such an expensive, useless contraption? Or was this pat down just an example of TSA passive agressive domination?
TSA delenda est.
Jul 24, 2011, 5:36 pm
#145
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Was the WTMD powered on and being used as if it was?
A metal detector that alarms without the sound being audible to you?
The strip search machines are not able to be used to reliably identify items in many situations -- that's not surprising given the users and the equipment not being great for interdiction of contraband WEIs since it fails to detect explosives and since it fails to detect metal in some circumstances that would alarm a WTMD and HHMD if used but not as reliably be flagged by a strip search machine search.
Expensive, obsolete pieces of junk -- strip search machines, the lot of them.
A metal detector that alarms without the sound being audible to you?
The strip search machines are not able to be used to reliably identify items in many situations -- that's not surprising given the users and the equipment not being great for interdiction of contraband WEIs since it fails to detect explosives and since it fails to detect metal in some circumstances that would alarm a WTMD and HHMD if used but not as reliably be flagged by a strip search machine search.
Expensive, obsolete pieces of junk -- strip search machines, the lot of them.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 24, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Jul 24, 2011, 5:40 pm
#146
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
I presume it was powered on, but since I did not alarm, impossible to determine with 100% certainty if the WTMD was powered on and functioning properly. I do recall some lights along the borders of the frame.
Jul 27, 2011, 10:28 am
#147
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Query: This past Friday, while transiting the checkpoint at DTW, the intrepid TSO selected me for MMW after I had passed through the WTMD without alarming it. I groused about removing my belt and wallet, but then successfully passed through the MMW while giving a Stone Cold salute (middle finger extended on each hand). Before going through the MMW, I had placed my boarding pass in a pocket of my cargo shorts.
The Captain America-wannabe TSO on the far side of the MMW said that he needed to pat down the left leg of my shorts. Now, Captain America did not get anywhere near private areas. But what was the purpose of this pat down? Surely the MMW could resolve the boarding pass in my pocket. If it could not, then why have passengers waste time going through such an expensive, useless contraption? Or was this pat down just an example of TSA passive agressive domination?
TSA delenda est.
The Captain America-wannabe TSO on the far side of the MMW said that he needed to pat down the left leg of my shorts. Now, Captain America did not get anywhere near private areas. But what was the purpose of this pat down? Surely the MMW could resolve the boarding pass in my pocket. If it could not, then why have passengers waste time going through such an expensive, useless contraption? Or was this pat down just an example of TSA passive agressive domination?
TSA delenda est.
Jul 27, 2011, 12:19 pm
#148
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As a reminder, I went on record in here opposing the new uniform change when it occurred. I do not believe TSOs ought to have LEO-like appearances and I certainly do not believe they ought to have a military-like appearance.
<SNIP>
I think TSOs should wear comfortable polo-type shirts with equally comfortable slacks without any badges; perhaps a TSA logo embroidered on the shirt.
<SNIP>
There are those who believe that a uniformed appearance is more professional, garners more respect from passengers and symbolizes authority. This may be true at customs checkpoints but not at airport security checkpoints. Passengers should not be made to feel that they are processing through Checkpoint Charlie (the old Cold War checkpoint when Berlin was a divided city). Instead, it should be a comfortable, pleasant (if that's possible) experience.
<SNIP>
I think TSOs should wear comfortable polo-type shirts with equally comfortable slacks without any badges; perhaps a TSA logo embroidered on the shirt.
<SNIP>
There are those who believe that a uniformed appearance is more professional, garners more respect from passengers and symbolizes authority. This may be true at customs checkpoints but not at airport security checkpoints. Passengers should not be made to feel that they are processing through Checkpoint Charlie (the old Cold War checkpoint when Berlin was a divided city). Instead, it should be a comfortable, pleasant (if that's possible) experience.
And that's the point I was getting at. I like blue only because white is a stain magnet. The blue polo shirts worn by baggage screeners minus the embroidered TSA badge but with a TSA logo and perhaps the words TSO underneath it would suffice in my book. Makes it easy for passengers to identify TSOs and takes away the over-bearing appearance that a badge and LEO-type uniform tends to convey from time to time.
Wake the kids and call the neighbors, I agree with Bart!
That would also address the main problem I have with the TSA Honor Guard. By doing away with the berets, ascots, white gloves, lanyards, etc. that would help to eliminate the appearance of trying to cash in on the respect the public has for law enforcement and those that serve in the military.
If they want to march around on their own time in khaki pants and golf shirts, go for it.
^