Militarize TSA?
#31
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 593
Can't use the military for this purpose. It's against the law dating back to the reconstruction era. The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prevents the government from using military in law enforcement type activities.
Bush was successful in revising the law to allow the use of military following a terrorist attack however, I think that was repealed fairly recently. The use of the military in law enforcement against U.S. citizens has generally been disastrous throughout history. Military units are trained to assault, invade and occupy, under clearly defined rules of engagement, not administer and enforce the law. Apparently, not unlike many of the present day TSA (except TSA has no clearly defined ROE).
Bush was successful in revising the law to allow the use of military following a terrorist attack however, I think that was repealed fairly recently. The use of the military in law enforcement against U.S. citizens has generally been disastrous throughout history. Military units are trained to assault, invade and occupy, under clearly defined rules of engagement, not administer and enforce the law. Apparently, not unlike many of the present day TSA (except TSA has no clearly defined ROE).
#32




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Having participated in a couple of "peacekeeping" missions, and humanitarian missions in the military, I have found that the majority of military members are not necessarily equipped to function as peacekeepers. I tend to agree with RB (gasp*) in that the majority of missions defined in the military are about finding new and ingenious ways of destroying people, things and structures, and if you can find a simple way to do all three at once, you usually have a SGM stripe on your sleeve. It is not that the people are bad, or that they don't care, it is that the training they receive and repeat (ad nauseum) is geared towards ending threats. Using the military in the airports would violate Posse Comitatus to start with, and would require a whole new set of training, theories and thought process just to get to a starting point - which would take years to design. The military is doing what it has been designed to do (more or less), which is destroy. Without a whole rewrite of many laws (at a constitutional level in some cases), the training and attitude of the military members involved, and a reconditioning of the American public to get used to soldiers interacting with them on a regular basis (and there are tons of folks here and in the blogosphere already screaming brown shirts this, nazi that - imagine what would happen if you had soldiers patting down folks that alarmed the system on the evening news!), I just don't see that this is viable. The drain on resources and imagery alone would be a non-starter.
*Sorry, had to go bang my head on the wall for agreeing with RB on something outright!
*Sorry, had to go bang my head on the wall for agreeing with RB on something outright!
#33




Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: DTW
Programs: Dirt Status w/ All
Posts: 5,049
If TSA eliminated all of the BS in airports including:
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
- BDO Dragnet
- Gate Screenings
- 3 TSOs per NoS
- Parking Lot Wanderers
- Air Marshals
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
#34
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 49,092
If TSA eliminated all of the BS in airports including:
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
- BDO Dragnet
- Gate Screenings
- 3 TSOs per NoS
- Parking Lot Wanderers
- Air Marshals
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
Just stands there. If anyone accidentally approaches, he/she (only seen males performing this function) adds his/her loud voice to the chorus of shouts from other TSOs directing you to the NoS.
#35
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,310
Honestly, I think every military person I've ever talked to feels about the same way we all do about the TSA. They hate them. They feel like they've spent the last 10+ years fighting a "terror" threat, only to come home find their government terrorizing its own people.
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,990
Having participated in a couple of "peacekeeping" missions, and humanitarian missions in the military, I have found that the majority of military members are not necessarily equipped to function as peacekeepers. I tend to agree with RB (gasp*) in that the majority of missions defined in the military are about finding new and ingenious ways of destroying people, things and structures, and if you can find a simple way to do all three at once, you usually have a SGM stripe on your sleeve. It is not that the people are bad, or that they don't care, it is that the training they receive and repeat (ad nauseum) is geared towards ending threats. Using the military in the airports would violate Posse Comitatus to start with, and would require a whole new set of training, theories and thought process just to get to a starting point - which would take years to design. The military is doing what it has been designed to do (more or less), which is destroy. Without a whole rewrite of many laws (at a constitutional level in some cases), the training and attitude of the military members involved, and a reconditioning of the American public to get used to soldiers interacting with them on a regular basis (and there are tons of folks here and in the blogosphere already screaming brown shirts this, nazi that - imagine what would happen if you had soldiers patting down folks that alarmed the system on the evening news!), I just don't see that this is viable. The drain on resources and imagery alone would be a non-starter.
*Sorry, had to go bang my head on the wall for agreeing with RB on something outright!
*Sorry, had to go bang my head on the wall for agreeing with RB on something outright!

#38
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
What does a TSO's weight have to do with their job function? Running an X-ray or an AIT machine, manning a TDC station or serving as an exit guard, performing patdowns ... none of these functions require an Adonis-like physique.
If the problem is presenting a professional appearance, there are other ways for TSA to achieve that, even with a few extra pounds.
#40




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
We agree more often than either of us wants to admit. The basics are pretty much the same for us, with some differences on policy. I think it is a matter of working on policy between us that causes us friction. I can't leave here yet, my job is not done yet - until the major arguments between the gang here and TSA is about policy, and not unprofessional behavior, I can't leave yet.
#41




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Honestly, I don't get the obsession over the physical appearance of TSOs. Yes, members of the military are, universally, in much better physical shape. But that's directly related to their job function --- as pointed out upthread, the military's chief job is to kill people and break stuff, and you need to be fit to do that.
What does a TSO's weight have to do with their job function? Running an X-ray or an AIT machine, manning a TDC station or serving as an exit guard, performing patdowns ... none of these functions require an Adonis-like physique.
If the problem is presenting a professional appearance, there are other ways for TSA to achieve that, even with a few extra pounds.
What does a TSO's weight have to do with their job function? Running an X-ray or an AIT machine, manning a TDC station or serving as an exit guard, performing patdowns ... none of these functions require an Adonis-like physique.
If the problem is presenting a professional appearance, there are other ways for TSA to achieve that, even with a few extra pounds.
In the interest of full disclosure, I am 6'2" and pretty thick.
#42
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,972
#43
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 305
If TSA eliminated all of the BS in airports including:
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
- BDO Dragnet
- Gate Screenings
- 3 TSOs per NoS
- Parking Lot Wanderers
- Air Marshals
They could eliminate 50% of the workforce and dump all of the bad ones. I do believe that they could find 50% of the current TSA workforce that could do a good job - IF they had proper management, good rules, and working technology.
#44
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
Well, they take a seat in first class, so it makes upgrades harder.
I'm not saying FAMs are a waste or we should eliminate them, but none of the plots in the past 9 years that have resulted in what we now go through at the airport had anything to do with the cockpit door. Putting FAMs up front is unnecessary.
I'm not saying FAMs are a waste or we should eliminate them, but none of the plots in the past 9 years that have resulted in what we now go through at the airport had anything to do with the cockpit door. Putting FAMs up front is unnecessary.
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP-6MM; Starwood Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 192
FAM's are welcomed in my opinion. Met a few in the club lounge at the Sheraton club lounge at CDG. Overall good guys- as it appears many have a number of years in civil service. I personally feel a little safer knowing they are there on my trips into or out of the US.
FAM's are CLEARLY several notches above the rest of the TSA.
FAM's are CLEARLY several notches above the rest of the TSA.

