Wimpie

Another sick story out of LAX
http://www.latimes.com/travel/deals/...,4841649.story
WAY TO GO WENDY!

bwshorthair

I read up a TON on this forum prior to my holiday travel. So I just wanted to share my opt-out experience at BWI airport. I went to the concourse D checkpoint on Black Friday. There was hardly a line. Just 1 person in front of me for the boarding pass/ID check. I could clearly see that both the metal detector and MMW machine were in use at each line. 2 lines were open and while the MMW was primary in both, if it was in use they would put the next person through the WTMD. They ended up closing the line I was in just as I entered, making me the last person for the line I chose. I put my things on the X-ray belt and moved to walk through the WTMD. I was stopped by a male TSO and told to go through the MMW. I politely declined saying “Oh, no thank you, I’d like to opt out of that”. He seemed surprised, but said ok and told me to go through the WTMD and stand to the left of it.

At this point, my belongings had been X-rayed and were sitting at the end of the shoot. I could see them from where I was, though (just inside the WTMD), so I was not concerned. Also in my favor was that nobody else was coming through behind me to bother my things. A female TSO watching the WTMD did yell “Refusal! Female Assist!” a few times, but I didn’t mind. She wasn’t being rude about it and hardly anyone was around to hear anyway. Oddly she did ask for my age, which I gave her. A minute or two later a very nice young female TSO came over to get me. She was in the process of putting on fresh gloves (I saw the box) as she came over. She escorted me to a little carpet with yellow footprints facing my belongings on the X-ray belt. I stood where she asked and watched my stuff. She asked if I had any metal implants or replacement parts to my body, and asked if any part of me was sore or of concern. I said no to both. She then explained in thorough detail and with light demonstration on herself what she would be doing to me. I thanked her for the explanation, and the pat down began. It was actually very light. She felt my shoulders and back, my waist, and just barely inside the back of my waist band. She then announced she would be approaching a “sensitive area” and used the back of her hands on my butt and patted up the back of my legs to my upper thigh. She did not proceed until resistance was met, no groin touching occurred. She came around front and did use the back of her hand around all edges of my breasts as she had previously demonstrated on herself she would do. She continued down to the front of my waist and waist band, used the back of the hand to my zipper, and down the front of my legs from my thighs to the tops of my feet. That was it. There was no groin touching, no head/face/hair stroking, and she did not even “pat down” my bare arms sticking out of my T-shirt.

It was very fast, very light, very inoffensive, and she was a very polite person. She said thank you to me, I said thank you to her, and I took my stuff and went. Yes it took longer than going through the scan, but only by about 3 minutes tops and it was no trouble at all. I realize this is just one person, just one example, a very uncrowded scenario, and maybe they’re still on some special holiday mode. Also she never informed me of my right to request a private room. I would not have, but it was interesting to note. To be honest, I am concerned that the pat down did not include my actual groin area and very little actual tactile pressure. Not that I wish for someone to touch me in that manner, but the pat down I received probably would not have caught many unwanted items.

divemistressofthedark

Welcome to FT!

A general theory around here is that the friskings aren't meant to "catch unwanted items," they're punishment for opting out of the AITs. Otherwise they wouldn't have been implemented at the same time, nearly a year after the underwear incident that has so many people in a tizzy.

I'm glad your experience was relatively trauma free, but unfortunately that isn't the case for many who have committed no crimes and who have done nothing to deserve such invasive, rough treatment.

bwshorthair

Thanks for the reply and the welcome. I was fully expecting a "punishment" pat down, and believe me I have read every story and article I could find. Since it did not occur, I just wanted to share my experience at a specific airport and section. I know that before I left I had been trying to find more single examples from the airports I was using.

In any case, I have 2 more air trips to complete before the end of this year so perhaps more stories will come.

Groundling

Leaving ABQ with family. Only one lane open with WTMD and NoS. (In ABQ, all lanes now have NoS on the right of the lane with a WTMD on the left). We all got in the left lane. Wife and 2 kids got through WTMD. I was in the chute and redirected by smurf into the NoS.

Told the smurf "I opt out". The smurf then said, "Don't you want to go through the scanner?" like it was some kind of treat. I answered flatly "No.". Another smurf motioned me through the WTMD, which is where I was going in the first place.

Smurf then started saying "Stand here, wait here" - the usual script. I ignored him and kept looking at my belongings until another smurf came up. The guy was nice enough and a full foot shorter than me. Asked me to identify my things "without touching them". (BTW, what happens if you do touch them?)

Anyway, we proceed over to the 4th Amendment Violation Area and the smurf explains the standard pat down procedure while he puts on "new" gloves from the drawer. I say "I understand what you are saying" and nothing more. The smurf goes ahead with the violation.

After he's complete, the smurf rubs down his glove and submits it to the magic meter...Guess what? It came back positive. Uh-oh. The smurf now tells me that I have go to an "enhanced pat down" in the private screening area. I say, "please get the LEO over here right now to be my witness". The smurf supervisor rushes over along with another smurf. Mind you that I am a good foot taller than all of them. The supervisor starts asking questions. I ignore her, look over the heads of all the smurfs and follow the LEO that is walking towards me. The smurf supervisor keeps asking the same questions as if I am going to acknowledge her.

The LEO arrives and I ask him, politely, if he would please witness this search that the smurfs want to do in private. At first, he clearly doesn't want to have anything to do with this. He is telling me that this is a TSA matter and he has no jurisdiction. I keep asking nicely, explaining that I need a witness for this procedure that is going to be carried out in private. He relents and ask the smurf if there is a problem with him being there. The smurf says there is no problem so off to the 4 Amendment Violation Closet we all go -- me, 2 smurfs and a LEO.

While in there and undergoing an enhanced pat down (a.k.a. groin grope), I am thinking to myself what the smurfs tell people who inquire about their line of work, and what they do in the execution of their jobs -- but I digress. After the violation, the smurf asks me to sit down while they run the glove sample through the magic meter. I do and I start telling the officer how I am traveling with my family and that my daughter is right outside seeing all of this. (After all, it's all about winning the hearts and minds, right? I'm sure that my kids seeing their father escorted by the police and two people dressed up like police for doing nothing other than wanting to go on a plane ride will not be soon forgotten).

The other smurf returns with GREAT news -- the test from the magic meter miraculously came back negative and I was "free to go". Hallelujah!

Things I will remember for myself:

1) Ask the smurf to test his gloves BEFORE he Violates my rights. If he refuses, call a LEO. (Lesson learned)

2) Ask to see the results of the magic meter. (Lesson learned).

3) NEVER GIVE CONSENT. They are going to Violate my rights anyway, but that does not mean I have to give consent -- a simple "I understand what you are saying" is not consent.

4) NEVER move from 4th Amendment Violation Area to any 4th Amendment Violation Closet unless you need to show children what tyranny looks like. (My kids will never forget -- hearts and minds, right TSA!)

5) Call for a LEO whenever you want. The LEO is a law enforcement professional that there to protect you. It apparently really fouls up the smurfs SOPs if you call for the LEO before they are ready. In my case, they were very confused about why I was calling for a LEO.

I want to end this by saying that I am going to follow the advise of the TSA apologists on this board. The logic these people make are "well, if you don't like the rules, then don't fly". While I am nothing more than a pimple on a flea's but in the grand scheme of things, my thinking is pretty much along the lines of an average law-abiding, freedom-loving, tax-paying American citizen. For every one of us that speaks up, I imagine there are 1000s that do not. Over time, as we fly less and less for vacation and what not, there will be less taxes to pay the smurfs, and less arses to fill up the plane. This will translate into higher ticket prices because more taxes will be needed to be taken from the hide of the remaining pax to pay the smurfs, and the airlines will need to charge incrementally more to fill up the thirsty plane. And less people will fly, and the self-feeding spiral will continue.

I will continue to pass my experience at ABQ by word of mouth to anyone who will listen, and will do my part to educate people about what the NoS does and why they might think twice about letting their daughters in one.

edweird

Was a different set of gloves used during the enhanced violation of rights?

Groundling

Yes. A different set of gloves were used. As to them being new, I have no way of knowing.

myadvice

Welcome to Flyertalk.

I can tell you are a good father.

JimNM

I opted out last night at sat terminal B. There were a lot of people who fly infrequently and both lines were moving much more slowly than normal. I went with the line on the left with the metal detector, NoS was on the right. I ended up being invited to the front of the line since the other pax were having problems taking their shoes off, belts, etc etc. Of course I ended up being directed to the NoS and opted out. To their credit, TSA took my bin and laptop case from the scanner to the magic detector area. I chose the public option and my only real complaint, besides the obvious privacy violation, was that it was so slow. Instead of doing the patdown all at once, it was broken up. Went to the new sat continental club, which is a letdown compared with the old one, fewer seats, smaller open space, and no bathroom.

Using the NoS will lead to a huge TSA lawsuit down the road citing radiation exposure and an inevitable settlement. Hopefully with the news out about the hard and soft emitters that this machine emits (as opposed to backscatter) more resistance will build to this intrusion and safety hazard. I was much happier with the puffers and wouldn't have a problem with dogs.

axpmaluga

Had my first opportunity to opt out today at ROC. There were two lanes and I got into the one with the traditional metal detector but was pointed to the NOS in the middle when it was my turn. Told the agent that I wanted to opt out and he said "there's no radiation". I didn't feel like arguing that point so I just said "I don't care, I don't want naked pictures being taken of me." Was let through between the NOS and the metal detector (irony?) and went through the patdown. I was asked "Do you have any medical conditions I should know about or any sensitive areas of your body you don't want touched?" I looked at the guy and was like "Yeah there's parts of me I don't want touched" To his credit he was very professional and talked me through exactly what he was going to do before he did it. At no point did my junk get touched but it got pretty close. The worst part really was the fingertips inside my waistband which didn't go down far, but still, that's a little much. No way would I want that happening to my kids if I had any. I guess the most ridiculous thing is that I've been on 60+ flights this year and countless flights since 9/11 without even the hint of something being amiss with me or my fellow passengers and beyond the 4th amendment violations and everything else, it just seems silly, ridiculous and completely unnecessary.

Seat1A

for the first time yesterday, i was directed to the scanner. i of course opted out.

the departure was from BOS terminal A, which has had scanners for some time.. i was directed to the scanner, and said "i opt out of the scanner". the agent radioed, and immediately, a male officer directed me to follow him. i had no trouble keeping my belongings in sight, and he executed the full "enhanced patdown", including "up your inner thigh until i meet resistance". he was very professional about it, and despite going up my thight and inside my waistband, my genitals were not directly probed. no one tried to talk me out of the opt out, and no one caused me any undue delay.

the current procedures suck, but i refuse to take that out on the TSA agents, and given what the procedures are, the agents executed them as calmly and professionally as i could have asked for.

i will donate more money to ACLU, but i won't take out my hatred on the agents. i have no against-policy complaints as to how i was handled.

at STL today, i was easily able to self-opt-out by getting in the WTMD line. i sensed that the agent at the bag check found me suspicious -- probably because it looked like they were getting ready to open the scanner, and i was getting nervous. he asked me a couple of "casual conversation" questions, and decided i was OK. wish they'd do more of that, over directing to the scanner randomly.....

EasternTraveler

After 78 flights this year it finally happened. At BNA this morning I was watching as the elite line was using the L3. I listened as one lady opted out and the TSO asked why. She said radiation. He said its not radiation we have millimeter wave. Backscatter is radiation. She hesitated and he said "Mam, I assure you it is 100% safe. He told a couple more as I got closer. Now I am in hearing range without yelling and I wait patiently for him to lie again. No one else opts out. But of course I do. He gives me the spill and starts his routine. I tell him to stop the belt and get out my wallet. I will show him my licenses and credentials which says he does not know what he is talking about. Others hear this and he says "That won't be necessary" and calls for an opt out. The man comes over and takes me and my things to the holding pen. Explains everything by the book and is friendly. He never hits anything in a hard pressing manner. He changed gloves and did everything correct. He said this is not so bad is it. Of course not, but I have read of others being bad, he said "yes i agree with you and some of those are here" I said "why not get rid of them" he said "I wish we could but it is a government job" I told him how many times I had been through without the pat down, he said they are beginning to open them up full bore now since they have enough people trained now. I notice once I opted out they shut the machine down until I was gone. I have seen this happen several times causing me not to even have to opt out.

Time for another NOOD

Posted from a non familiar computer keyboard, will edit later.

ocschwar

Do I understand you correctly? This man told people that the machine was MMW when in fact it was a Rapiscan backscatter model? If I see that I'm starting a criminal complaint for battery.

bdschobel

I have no idea why they do this, which makes absolutely no sense, but it does provide another justification for opting out: We can spare others the indignity of passing through the nude-o-scope. The longer it takes to finish patting us down, the more people we save. God's work!

Bruce

sheneh

It does seem that TSA should be more diligent about what it's screeners are allowed to say. Perhaps even provide handouts, like you get when your child gets immunizations. I doubt screener training is sufficient overall for screeners to get into specifics or make unqualified statements. Rather than coercing they could just politely let people opt out and hand them a flier to consider for next time.