Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Sep 23, 2010, 6:02 pm
#256
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
45 minutes.
Disgusting.
IMHO, combined with the treatment you received that amount of time OUGHT to be considered a crime. We have a statute of limitations for criminal cases, but NO limit on the time the TSA can take.
In addition to the ACLU and EPIC, you should complain - in person, not by letter - to your elected representatives, and you should complain to the CEO of the airline in a well composed, written, snail mail letter.
Disgusting.
IMHO, combined with the treatment you received that amount of time OUGHT to be considered a crime. We have a statute of limitations for criminal cases, but NO limit on the time the TSA can take.
In addition to the ACLU and EPIC, you should complain - in person, not by letter - to your elected representatives, and you should complain to the CEO of the airline in a well composed, written, snail mail letter.
Sep 23, 2010, 6:21 pm
#258
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Besides the usual (! - sad that we consider that usual now), Rosemary's story brings up two additional issues
- the lack of female TSOs results in longer wait times (addressed here in past by a supervisor who acknowledged that this is an issue)
- the attitude of female TSOs seems to be generally very poor, or unpleasant, in my encounters; I have rarely encountered one who doesn't seem to have attitude, and this includes several grandmotherly-looking types who seem to have the least amount of training (or retention)
- the lack of female TSOs results in longer wait times (addressed here in past by a supervisor who acknowledged that this is an issue)
- the attitude of female TSOs seems to be generally very poor, or unpleasant, in my encounters; I have rarely encountered one who doesn't seem to have attitude, and this includes several grandmotherly-looking types who seem to have the least amount of training (or retention)
Sep 23, 2010, 7:42 pm
#259
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 507
Came back from BOS yesterday. At UA terminal theres one WMD and one AIT.
Once again, luck out.
Since got there early just in case, watched them for pretty much an hour.
They were averaging like 5 WMD's to every AIT, then for ten min it was just AIT. After that, the guy by it went on break, going to the side room for the gal inside.
Break was 10-15min, then back on at the old rate.
During the hour there was only one gal to refuse it, talked to her later.
She said she always gets picked for it somehow, and doesn't want the radiation. Also said she didn't care about the privacy issue, and was pretty good looking too.
Once again, luck out.
Since got there early just in case, watched them for pretty much an hour.
They were averaging like 5 WMD's to every AIT, then for ten min it was just AIT. After that, the guy by it went on break, going to the side room for the gal inside.
Break was 10-15min, then back on at the old rate.
During the hour there was only one gal to refuse it, talked to her later.
She said she always gets picked for it somehow, and doesn't want the radiation. Also said she didn't care about the privacy issue, and was pretty good looking too.
Sep 23, 2010, 7:50 pm
#260
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 132
Thanks!
Mike, thanks so much for that link! I've already submitted a letter to both of those sites.
This happened about 12 days ago and I've been ruminating over this and striving to figure out what to do about it. Given the way this "pat down" is managed - far away from our belongings at the end of the conveyor belt - I'm surprised that more people aren't losing their laptops and personal possessions.
As I stood there waiting for my pat-down, I was striving to balance poise and equanimity with firmness and certitude. I'm an author and in the last eight years, I have traveled quite a bit and I consider myself to be quite articulate, but this experience really blew all my fuses. I was unable to persuade the TSA agent to let me *at least* move over to my belongings. She was most unpleasant.
And I knew that if my wallet and cellphone and laptop were stolen, TSA would claim "sovereign immunity" and it'd be my loss.
Thanks again for the replies.
Rosemary
This happened about 12 days ago and I've been ruminating over this and striving to figure out what to do about it. Given the way this "pat down" is managed - far away from our belongings at the end of the conveyor belt - I'm surprised that more people aren't losing their laptops and personal possessions.
As I stood there waiting for my pat-down, I was striving to balance poise and equanimity with firmness and certitude. I'm an author and in the last eight years, I have traveled quite a bit and I consider myself to be quite articulate, but this experience really blew all my fuses. I was unable to persuade the TSA agent to let me *at least* move over to my belongings. She was most unpleasant.
And I knew that if my wallet and cellphone and laptop were stolen, TSA would claim "sovereign immunity" and it'd be my loss.
Thanks again for the replies.
Rosemary
Sep 23, 2010, 7:56 pm
#261
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,607
Mike, thanks so much for that link! I've already submitted a letter to both of those sites.
This happened about 12 days ago and I've been ruminating over this and striving to figure out what to do about it. Given the way this "pat down" is managed - far away from our belongings at the end of the conveyor belt - I'm surprised that more people aren't losing their laptops and personal possessions.
As I stood there waiting for my pat-down, I was striving to balance poise and equanimity with firmness and certitude. I'm an author and in the last eight years, I have traveled quite a bit and I consider myself to be quite articulate, but this experience really blew all my fuses. I was unable to persuade the TSA agent to let me *at least* move over to my belongings. She was most unpleasant.
And I knew that if my wallet and cellphone and laptop were stolen, TSA would claim "sovereign immunity" and it'd be my loss.
Thanks again for the replies.
Rosemary
This happened about 12 days ago and I've been ruminating over this and striving to figure out what to do about it. Given the way this "pat down" is managed - far away from our belongings at the end of the conveyor belt - I'm surprised that more people aren't losing their laptops and personal possessions.
As I stood there waiting for my pat-down, I was striving to balance poise and equanimity with firmness and certitude. I'm an author and in the last eight years, I have traveled quite a bit and I consider myself to be quite articulate, but this experience really blew all my fuses. I was unable to persuade the TSA agent to let me *at least* move over to my belongings. She was most unpleasant.
And I knew that if my wallet and cellphone and laptop were stolen, TSA would claim "sovereign immunity" and it'd be my loss.
Thanks again for the replies.
Rosemary
As far as your wallet, cellphone and laptop being stolen, TSA would probably say that the checkpoint video was deleted
Sep 23, 2010, 8:19 pm
#262
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 132
Would you be okay with me putting your experience on one of our websites devoted to stopping the Nude-O-Scope installation?
I really do have specific religious and personal objections to being stripped naked via backscatter xray images - which are then viewed by TSA workers. However, I had no idea that the "pat down" alternative was so intrusive and intensive and performed IN PUBLIC!!
Rose
Sep 23, 2010, 8:42 pm
#263
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
Programs: AA lifetime Gold , DL Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 572
Opting out of the scanner inflicts punitive measures on the traveler. I speak from experience.
September 11, 2010, I flew out of Atlanta's airport and ended up in the "random pick" line for the backscatter x-ray. I told the already-scowling TSA attendant that - due to personal and religious beliefs - I wanted to opt out of the backscatter scanner.
She rolled her eyes and told me to step around the machine. In a strident voice, she then screeched (and I mean SCREECHED), "I need a female attendant for a pat down!"
This was my first time dealing with this new technology, but I'd decided months ago that I was NOT going to be microwaved on "medium defrost" *and* have my 51-year-old body ogled by a TSA employee.
So the angry TSA attendant parked me next to the scanner, and I kept looking at the scanning device and wondering (and hoping) that the Plexiglas shroud blocked all the radiation generated by the machine. What a perfect punishment for someone who fears being exposed to whatever health risks: Park them NEXT to the machine so that they get mega-doses.
Meanwhile, my personal belongings hit the end of the conveyor belt, having survived their trip through the x-ray (or whatever it is). But parked in my spot beside the scanner, I could barely see the gray bins containing my brand-new Toshiba laptop, my small leather wallet, my cell phone and my keys.
I literally pleaded with the TSA attendant to allow me to retrieve my personal possessions and she refused. I was traveling alone (as I often do). I then pleaded with her to allow me to at least be in the line of sight of my wallet and cell phone and she again ordered me - again in a loud voice - to remain still. She was demanding, harsh and unyielding.
I kept thinking to myself, "this is what happens when you opt out. You lose your wallet and your laptop. Very, very effective."
I watched the hordes of travelers moving through the "traffic lanes" of the security line, retrieving their personal items and realizing, anyone one of them could easily lift and pocket my things and no one would be the wiser. I was about sick with fear. There were no TSA agents near my belongings. No one watching out for them. All my things just sat at the end of that conveyor belt, about 20-25 feet away from me.
The minutes ticked by. I kept edging over a little more and a little more until I could at least SEE my personal things. The angry TSA agnet would periodically screech, "I need a female attendant for a pat down."
Each time she screeched, I watched dozens of heads turn in the long line, eyeballing the crazy woman who'd been removed from the regular line and set aside. I served as an excellent example. No one else dared opt-out of the scanner.
Dozens of passengers went by as I stood there, moving so close that they literally brushed past me. They'd look sideways at me - some with pity and some with a "what-the-heck-did-you-do" glare. I was forced to remain immediately next to this TSA person. It was truly awful.
I was treated like a criminal and it was a very upsetting experience. Finally, after a 30-minute wait, a female appeared and moved me several feet away to another area. Now, I was closer to my things and could at least keep an eye on them.
Despite this, I was still in plain view, within five or six feet of the main traffic lanes. The attendant started patting me down. She used her palms and fingers, and stroked and touched every piece and part of my body.
Again - it was hugely humiliating - as she rubbed her hands over my groin, my inner thighs, my breasts, etc - right in full view of the traveling public.
Next, she ran a circular pad all over my clothes and then put it in the sniffer. This is where I nearly threw up with fear. You see, I'd worn these jeans last time that I went to the target range to practice shooting my Smith and Wesson .38. Had I washed these jeans since then? I couldn't remember. I knew the gunpowder residue from firing my .38 revolver would show up on that sniffer.
It was terrifying. I was nauseous and started to feel light-headed and faint.
Finally - 45 minutes later, it was over.
The entire affair was very punitive, and humiliating and time consuming and emotionally distressing. When I retrieved my things, I walked into the women's restroom and wept.
Make no mistake - this was intended to be misery. I opted out. I'm a rebel, and according to the TSA's behavior, I must be punished.
It worked. My flying days are over.
Rosemary in Norfolk
September 11, 2010, I flew out of Atlanta's airport and ended up in the "random pick" line for the backscatter x-ray. I told the already-scowling TSA attendant that - due to personal and religious beliefs - I wanted to opt out of the backscatter scanner.
She rolled her eyes and told me to step around the machine. In a strident voice, she then screeched (and I mean SCREECHED), "I need a female attendant for a pat down!"
This was my first time dealing with this new technology, but I'd decided months ago that I was NOT going to be microwaved on "medium defrost" *and* have my 51-year-old body ogled by a TSA employee.
So the angry TSA attendant parked me next to the scanner, and I kept looking at the scanning device and wondering (and hoping) that the Plexiglas shroud blocked all the radiation generated by the machine. What a perfect punishment for someone who fears being exposed to whatever health risks: Park them NEXT to the machine so that they get mega-doses.
Meanwhile, my personal belongings hit the end of the conveyor belt, having survived their trip through the x-ray (or whatever it is). But parked in my spot beside the scanner, I could barely see the gray bins containing my brand-new Toshiba laptop, my small leather wallet, my cell phone and my keys.
I literally pleaded with the TSA attendant to allow me to retrieve my personal possessions and she refused. I was traveling alone (as I often do). I then pleaded with her to allow me to at least be in the line of sight of my wallet and cell phone and she again ordered me - again in a loud voice - to remain still. She was demanding, harsh and unyielding.
I kept thinking to myself, "this is what happens when you opt out. You lose your wallet and your laptop. Very, very effective."
I watched the hordes of travelers moving through the "traffic lanes" of the security line, retrieving their personal items and realizing, anyone one of them could easily lift and pocket my things and no one would be the wiser. I was about sick with fear. There were no TSA agents near my belongings. No one watching out for them. All my things just sat at the end of that conveyor belt, about 20-25 feet away from me.
The minutes ticked by. I kept edging over a little more and a little more until I could at least SEE my personal things. The angry TSA agnet would periodically screech, "I need a female attendant for a pat down."
Each time she screeched, I watched dozens of heads turn in the long line, eyeballing the crazy woman who'd been removed from the regular line and set aside. I served as an excellent example. No one else dared opt-out of the scanner.
Dozens of passengers went by as I stood there, moving so close that they literally brushed past me. They'd look sideways at me - some with pity and some with a "what-the-heck-did-you-do" glare. I was forced to remain immediately next to this TSA person. It was truly awful.
I was treated like a criminal and it was a very upsetting experience. Finally, after a 30-minute wait, a female appeared and moved me several feet away to another area. Now, I was closer to my things and could at least keep an eye on them.
Despite this, I was still in plain view, within five or six feet of the main traffic lanes. The attendant started patting me down. She used her palms and fingers, and stroked and touched every piece and part of my body.
Again - it was hugely humiliating - as she rubbed her hands over my groin, my inner thighs, my breasts, etc - right in full view of the traveling public.
Next, she ran a circular pad all over my clothes and then put it in the sniffer. This is where I nearly threw up with fear. You see, I'd worn these jeans last time that I went to the target range to practice shooting my Smith and Wesson .38. Had I washed these jeans since then? I couldn't remember. I knew the gunpowder residue from firing my .38 revolver would show up on that sniffer.
It was terrifying. I was nauseous and started to feel light-headed and faint.
Finally - 45 minutes later, it was over.
The entire affair was very punitive, and humiliating and time consuming and emotionally distressing. When I retrieved my things, I walked into the women's restroom and wept.
Make no mistake - this was intended to be misery. I opted out. I'm a rebel, and according to the TSA's behavior, I must be punished.
It worked. My flying days are over.
Rosemary in Norfolk
If it was me, I would have immediately asked for a supervisor and in no uncertain terms voiced my concern about both being exposed to unnecessary radiation by being forced to stand next to the scanner, and if the supervisor says its safe to stand there, I would ask to see his/her state radiologist technician license and number 2, not being allowed to have my personal belongings removed from the x-ray table and placed in a secure spot and last, asking the supervisor for a complaint form, making sure I got the TSA agent's badge number.
If the supervisor refused my requests, then I would ask for a police officer, and ask him to make a note, including the supervisors name or badge number for a possible future lawsuit that the TSA supervisor refused to let me move to a safe distance away from the scanner and refused to protect my personal property.
And I would follow it up with the previous mentioned complaints.
Mr. Elliott
Sep 23, 2010, 8:44 pm
#264
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,714
Post away. My real name is Rosemary Thornton and thanks to my books, you can find me online.
I really do have specific religious and personal objections to being stripped naked via backscatter xray images - which are then viewed by TSA workers. However, I had no idea that the "pat down" alternative was so intrusive and intensive and performed IN PUBLIC!!
Rose
I really do have specific religious and personal objections to being stripped naked via backscatter xray images - which are then viewed by TSA workers. However, I had no idea that the "pat down" alternative was so intrusive and intensive and performed IN PUBLIC!!
Rose
Also, the WBIs are still being rolled out. Initially, TSA said they would only be used as a secondary means to resolve an alarm (like a super-wanding). They have since come out and said that the WBIs will be primary screening.
Not much you can do to ensure the security of your laptop. TSA has been wildly inconsistent (all along, but it's worse now) in allowing you to keep your belongings in your line of sight at all times. However, in the future, you probably should get in the habit of securing your wallet, phone, any other valuables in a locked compartment of your carry-on.
BTW, welcome to Flyertalk!
Sep 23, 2010, 9:13 pm
#265
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
This TSA agent was definitely on a power trip.
If it was me, I would have immediately asked for a supervisor and in no uncertain terms voiced my concern about both being exposed to unnecessary radiation by being forced to stand next to the scanner, and if the supervisor says its safe to stand there, I would ask to see his/her state radiologist technician license and number 2, not being allowed to have my personal belongings removed from the x-ray table and placed in a secure spot and last, asking the supervisor for a complaint form, making sure I got the TSA agent's badge number.
If the supervisor refused my requests, then I would ask for a police officer, and ask him to make a note, including the supervisors name or badge number for a possible future lawsuit that the TSA supervisor refused to let me move to a safe distance away from the scanner and refused to protect my personal property.
And I would follow it up with the previous mentioned complaints.
Mr. Elliott
If it was me, I would have immediately asked for a supervisor and in no uncertain terms voiced my concern about both being exposed to unnecessary radiation by being forced to stand next to the scanner, and if the supervisor says its safe to stand there, I would ask to see his/her state radiologist technician license and number 2, not being allowed to have my personal belongings removed from the x-ray table and placed in a secure spot and last, asking the supervisor for a complaint form, making sure I got the TSA agent's badge number.
If the supervisor refused my requests, then I would ask for a police officer, and ask him to make a note, including the supervisors name or badge number for a possible future lawsuit that the TSA supervisor refused to let me move to a safe distance away from the scanner and refused to protect my personal property.
And I would follow it up with the previous mentioned complaints.
Mr. Elliott
Yet TSA thinks it's cool just to hang around these machines all day ..............
Sep 23, 2010, 9:17 pm
#266
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, WN, US, Avis, AA
Posts: 662
Not much you can do to ensure the security of your laptop. TSA has been wildly inconsistent (all along, but it's worse now) in allowing you to keep your belongings in your line of sight at all times. However, in the future, you probably should get in the habit of securing your wallet, phone, any other valuables in a locked compartment of your carry-on.
Sep 23, 2010, 9:20 pm
#267
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: SW Rapid Rewards, Hilton Honors, Marriott, Avis First
Posts: 4,831
Very good point. In the dentist office, the technician steps out in the hallway when my teeth are x-rayed. When I was in a operating room last January having a catheter repaired, all the staff (except the one doctor who was actually performing the procedure) were hiding behind a leaded glass window and communicating by intercom.
Yet TSA thinks it's cool just to hang around these machines all day ..............
Yet TSA thinks it's cool just to hang around these machines all day ..............
With the rate of exposure, my guess is it won't be a long time before we hear something.
Sep 23, 2010, 9:42 pm
#268
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,714
Seems to me this came up on POV (in relation to the WBI) and there was something to the effect that if you can't see your belongings (because you have to turn around and they are out of your sight), the TSOs have been trained to keep an eye on them for you.
Yeah, right.
Sep 23, 2010, 9:46 pm
#269
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
Not that easy. TSO #1 grabbed on of my bags off the belt and headed back to the front of the scanner, out of my sight. TSO #2 said 'Follow me'. I said I can't see my bag, I'm trying to keep an eye on my bag. TSO #2 immediately escalated, got very aggressive, said 'I said follow me or you won't be making your flight today. He's got your bag, don't you worry about it'.
Seems to me this came up on POV (in relation to the WBI) and there was something to the effect that if you can't see your belongings (because you have to turn around and they are out of your sight), the TSOs have been trained to keep an eye on them for you.
Yeah, right.
Seems to me this came up on POV (in relation to the WBI) and there was something to the effect that if you can't see your belongings (because you have to turn around and they are out of your sight), the TSOs have been trained to keep an eye on them for you.
Yeah, right.
Sep 23, 2010, 9:51 pm
#270
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere near BWI
Programs: DL DM, HH Dia, SPG Gold, MR Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,654
Not that easy. TSO #1 grabbed on of my bags off the belt and headed back to the front of the scanner, out of my sight. TSO #2 said 'Follow me'. I said I can't see my bag, I'm trying to keep an eye on my bag. TSO #2 immediately escalated, got very aggressive, said 'I said follow me or you won't be making your flight today. He's got your bag, don't you worry about it'.
Seems to me this came up on POV (in relation to the WBI) and there was something to the effect that if you can't see your belongings (because you have to turn around and they are out of your sight), the TSOs have been trained to keep an eye on them for you.
Yeah, right.
Seems to me this came up on POV (in relation to the WBI) and there was something to the effect that if you can't see your belongings (because you have to turn around and they are out of your sight), the TSOs have been trained to keep an eye on them for you.
Yeah, right.