SOP discussion
#496
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: PHX & PPT
Programs: DL PM, IHG Plat, Hilton Gold, AmExPlat
Posts: 833
#497
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: SSSSS
Posts: 867
The way I read it, 44 USC 3506(d)(4) (a) and (b) does not allow the government, once they have information they have disseminated, to restrict the public from disseminating that information, by establishing an exclusive distribution arrangement.
FBO.gov was the place where the government published certain information, not identified in any way as classified, restricted or otherwise unavailable to the public. Once they did this, they are not allowed by this law to interfere with public dissemination by creating an exclusive arrangement (ie only government controlled websites may distribute the data). Nor (4(b)) can they stop the public from redistributing that information.
Anyone who might have reposted information published by the government is allowed to do so and the government can't collect royalties (ie no copyright). In the old days, (pre-web) it would have been published in the Federal Register or the Commerce Business Daily, which can be freely copied and disseminated. The Web just makes it easier and faster.
FBO.gov was the place where the government published certain information, not identified in any way as classified, restricted or otherwise unavailable to the public. Once they did this, they are not allowed by this law to interfere with public dissemination by creating an exclusive arrangement (ie only government controlled websites may distribute the data). Nor (4(b)) can they stop the public from redistributing that information.
Anyone who might have reposted information published by the government is allowed to do so and the government can't collect royalties (ie no copyright). In the old days, (pre-web) it would have been published in the Federal Register or the Commerce Business Daily, which can be freely copied and disseminated. The Web just makes it easier and faster.
#498
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
#499
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Has anyone else noticed the drop off in TSOs visiting this site? Wonder if someone told them that visiting/commenting on this site put their miserable career in jeopardy?
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
We know that TSOs are specifically enjoined not to discuss SSI with anyone outside the agency, and can be sanctioned for doing so. Even though the information in this document is now completely public, it is still technically SSI until The Powers That Be declare otherwise. Consequently, there's probably no way for our TSA friends to actively participate in this discussion without violating the rules imposed upon them.
(This is hardly unique to TSA. When Valarie Plame Wilson wrote her book about her experiences as a covert CIA officer, she wasn't allowed to discuss certain topics, even though the information on those topics was in the public domain. As I understand it, her book has numerous places where this "secret" information is blacked out. To know what's there, all you have to do is go to the afterword in the book, written by her mother, where she fills in all of the details ... because Mom wasn't bound by any oaths of secrecy.)
Anyways ... I think our TSA friends are out there reading this, but are silent because they really have no other choice.
#500
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
I finally heard back from someone after many, many calls over the past couple days. Being able to say "Oh, and I'm the guy who started this whole mess" certainly seems to have an effect with certain staffers in Congress.
Our conversation was completely off the record and quite interesting. There was plenty of actual discussion about this and other topics near and dear to my heart.
The good news is that further inquiries are being made from different angles now. I don't necessarily expect instant results but things are moving forward.
Also, there are hearings scheduled by the Homeland Security Committee in the House next Wednesday at 2pm. I am going to see if I can clear my calendar to attend but I might have work obligations get in the way.
Our conversation was completely off the record and quite interesting. There was plenty of actual discussion about this and other topics near and dear to my heart.
The good news is that further inquiries are being made from different angles now. I don't necessarily expect instant results but things are moving forward.
Also, there are hearings scheduled by the Homeland Security Committee in the House next Wednesday at 2pm. I am going to see if I can clear my calendar to attend but I might have work obligations get in the way.
#503




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
Has anyone else noticed the drop off in TSOs visiting this site? Wonder if someone told them that visiting/commenting on this site put their miserable career in jeopardy?
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
#504
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,034
Speaking very honestly, I don't think they would learn very much from here.
Some of the ideas put forth onto here would have the end result of the TSA loosening its grip, and the TSA has shown nothing but a desire to grow, both in terms of scope of what it does, and, frankly, arrogance.
Some of the ideas put forth onto here would have the end result of the TSA loosening its grip, and the TSA has shown nothing but a desire to grow, both in terms of scope of what it does, and, frankly, arrogance.
#505




Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,496
#506
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,034
Has anyone else noticed the drop off in TSOs visiting this site? Wonder if someone told them that visiting/commenting on this site put their miserable career in jeopardy?
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
Hey TK, looks like this topic has become so radioactive that TSA employees fear coming even remotely close.
#507
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 41
good answer
I think there's a much more reasonable explanation.
We know that TSOs are specifically enjoined not to discuss SSI with anyone outside the agency, and can be sanctioned for doing so. Even though the information in this document is now completely public, it is still technically SSI until The Powers That Be declare otherwise. Consequently, there's probably no way for our TSA friends to actively participate in this discussion without violating the rules imposed upon them.
Anyways ... I think our TSA friends are out there reading this, but are silent because they really have no other choice.
We know that TSOs are specifically enjoined not to discuss SSI with anyone outside the agency, and can be sanctioned for doing so. Even though the information in this document is now completely public, it is still technically SSI until The Powers That Be declare otherwise. Consequently, there's probably no way for our TSA friends to actively participate in this discussion without violating the rules imposed upon them.
Anyways ... I think our TSA friends are out there reading this, but are silent because they really have no other choice.
#508




Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Thanks for posting this information. Seems I have read something about the requirement for federal contracts to be available to the public for a certain length of time. Unfortunately cannot find it.
Reason being I am not sure of the legality of removing the FBO contract solicitation and award information from their site.
If you happen to find such a requirement would appreciate a post.
Thanks
Reason being I am not sure of the legality of removing the FBO contract solicitation and award information from their site.
If you happen to find such a requirement would appreciate a post.
Thanks
#509
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
Thanks for posting this information. Seems I have read something about the requirement for federal contracts to be available to the public for a certain length of time. Unfortunately cannot find it.
Reason being I am not sure of the legality of removing the FBO contract solicitation and award information from their site.
If you happen to find such a requirement would appreciate a post.
Thanks
Reason being I am not sure of the legality of removing the FBO contract solicitation and award information from their site.
If you happen to find such a requirement would appreciate a post.
Thanks
However, taking it down when they did accomplished nothing.
#510
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
Programs: Sea Shell Lounge Platinum, TSA Pre✓ Refusnik Diamond, PWP Gold, FT subset of the subset
Posts: 12,523
I finally heard back from someone after many, many calls over the past couple days. Being able to say "Oh, and I'm the guy who started this whole mess" certainly seems to have an effect with certain staffers in Congress.
Our conversation was completely off the record and quite interesting. There was plenty of actual discussion about this and other topics near and dear to my heart.
The good news is that further inquiries are being made from different angles now. I don't necessarily expect instant results but things are moving forward.
Also, there are hearings scheduled by the Homeland Security Committee in the House next Wednesday at 2pm. I am going to see if I can clear my calendar to attend but I might have work obligations get in the way.
Our conversation was completely off the record and quite interesting. There was plenty of actual discussion about this and other topics near and dear to my heart.
The good news is that further inquiries are being made from different angles now. I don't necessarily expect instant results but things are moving forward.
Also, there are hearings scheduled by the Homeland Security Committee in the House next Wednesday at 2pm. I am going to see if I can clear my calendar to attend but I might have work obligations get in the way.
The way I read it, 44 USC 3506(d)(4) (a) and (b) does not allow the government, once they have information they have disseminated, to restrict the public from disseminating that information, by establishing an exclusive distribution arrangement.
FBO.gov was the place where the government published certain information, not identified in any way as classified, restricted or otherwise unavailable to the public. Once they did this, they are not allowed by this law to interfere with public dissemination by creating an exclusive arrangement (ie only government controlled websites may distribute the data). Nor (4(b)) can they stop the public from redistributing that information.
FBO.gov was the place where the government published certain information, not identified in any way as classified, restricted or otherwise unavailable to the public. Once they did this, they are not allowed by this law to interfere with public dissemination by creating an exclusive arrangement (ie only government controlled websites may distribute the data). Nor (4(b)) can they stop the public from redistributing that information.

