Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Apr 20, 2022, 12:01 pm
#796
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 54
Hi I have a Chase Ritz Carlton credit card and I'm looking to get the AMEX bonvoy brilliant. I'm thinking of downgrading my ritz card to one of the other chase bonvoy cards then wait 31 days and apply for the AMEX bonvoy brilliant card after that to get the sub. Just wondering if they are still letting people upgrade their chase bonvoy cards to the ritz card and if so how long should i wait after getting the AMEX bonvoy brilliant?
Thanks
Thanks
Apr 22, 2022, 12:24 am
#797
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 4
Hi, I have CSP looking to downgrade come AF time. Also currently have a Freedom Unlimited and would like to have the option to apply for Freedom Flex for SUB later down the road. Would there be any restrictions if I downgraded CSP to Freedom Flex now, and if so is my only choice then downgrade to second Freedom Unlimited? Thanks for answers
Apr 22, 2022, 7:24 am
#798
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Freedom is not available for new accounts, but there have been reports of successful product changes. Good luck.
Apr 30, 2022, 11:22 am
#799
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 102
Upgrade CSP to CSR
I currently have a CSP and am eligible for another SUB as it has been 48 months since I last received one. I am looking to book a hotel for next week that is a bit expensive. I was hoping to PYB at 1.5cpp (for restaurant charges and then book the hotel as money is fungible). Can I upgrade my CSP (which has been held for over ~4 years) to CSR and then downgrade a few months later? I'm happy to keep it open since I know the $300 travel credit can be double dipped but I was hoping to apply for another CSP to get the SUB. Would this result in another hard pull and new account? Lastly, would I be able to PYB restaurant charges made in the past 3 months on my CSP card after upgrading it to the CSR?
Apr 30, 2022, 2:57 pm
#800
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 102
Confirm steps to downgrade and applying MDD
Currently have a Freedom and a CSR and I got my bonus back in March 2018. I'm at 4/5 right now. So what I need to do is
If not, I should just apply to CSR first?
Currently have a Freedom and a CSR and I got my bonus back in March 2018. I'm at 4/5 right now. So what I need to do is
- Product Change CSR to Freedom (or other non-AF card)
- Wait 5 days
- Apply for CSP and wait for approval
- Day after CSP approval, apply for CSR and make sure it is approved on that day
If not, I should just apply to CSR first?
Apr 30, 2022, 3:52 pm
#801
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NYC suburbs
Programs: UA LT Gold (BIS), AA LT Plat (CC SUBs & BD), Hilton Dia (CC), Hyatt Glob (BIB), et. al.
Posts: 3,292
(Presuming MDD to mean Modified Double Dip) In contrast to other websites, MDD is infrequently discussed here perhaps because some people consider it to be high risk for shutdown and many people don’t want to piss-off Chase (arguably the most rewarding of the points and miles gravy train).
May 1, 2022, 12:08 am
#802
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 102
(Presuming MDD to mean Modified Double Dip) In contrast to other websites, MDD is infrequently discussed here perhaps because some people consider it to be high risk for shutdown and many people don’t want to piss-off Chase (arguably the most rewarding of the points and miles gravy train).
May 1, 2022, 1:42 am
#803
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Saipan, MP 96950 USA (Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands = the CNMI)
Programs: UA Silver, Hilton Silver. Life: UA .57 MM, United & Admirals Clubs (spousal), Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,053
Even if they do not, there may be a reluctance to post confirmatory or helpful pointers because "anything you say can and will be used against you." 
Don't ask me, I didn't even know what MDD (modified double dip) stood for and don't have any idea how it works.
Really.
Don't ask me, I didn't even know what MDD (modified double dip) stood for and don't have any idea how it works.
Really.
May 1, 2022, 8:44 am
#804
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Me, too, on all counts. As an aside, it always surprises me when someone asks for advice using jargon and abbreviations that could obscure what the poster is asking. (I'm happy that so many answers are clear enough that I've learned so much at FlyerTalk.) As another aside, modified double dip makes me wonder what an unmodified double dip is.
May 1, 2022, 8:57 am
#805
Moderator: Hyatt; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WAS
Programs: :rolleyes:, DL DM, Mlife Plat, Caesars Diam, Marriott Tit, UA Gold, Hyatt Glob, invol FT beta tester
Posts: 18,933
May 1, 2022, 9:19 am
#806
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 102
Me, too, on all counts. As an aside, it always surprises me when someone asks for advice using jargon and abbreviations that could obscure what the poster is asking. (I'm happy that so many answers are clear enough that I've learned so much at FlyerTalk.) As another aside, modified double dip makes me wonder what an unmodified double dip is.
May 1, 2022, 9:38 am
#807
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NYC suburbs
Programs: UA LT Gold (BIS), AA LT Plat (CC SUBs & BD), Hilton Dia (CC), Hyatt Glob (BIB), et. al.
Posts: 3,292
The fact that MDD is rarely discussed here (and that other experienced authors here claim to NOT know about MDD) is indicative of something, each of us can make our own conclusion(s) as to what that something is.
FWIW, IME as an aggressive relatively high velocity Chase (and other) applicant, I’d never do a MDD (or MS for that matter). I’m very pleased with Chase’s munificence (of SUBs) and don’t want to do anything so obvious to jeopardize it.
May 1, 2022, 12:49 pm
#808
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Another reason i would try to spell out an abbreviation, at least the first time I use it, is so that someone in a similar quandary later might find the discussion. Of course, this doesn't benefit an original poster, but it seems like a nice thing to do.
May 4, 2022, 1:33 pm
#809
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AA PLT, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,405
I currently have a CSP and am eligible for another SUB as it has been 48 months since I last received one. I am looking to book a hotel for next week that is a bit expensive. I was hoping to PYB at 1.5cpp (for restaurant charges and then book the hotel as money is fungible). Can I upgrade my CSP (which has been held for over ~4 years) to CSR and then downgrade a few months later? I'm happy to keep it open since I know the $300 travel credit can be double dipped but I was hoping to apply for another CSP to get the SUB. Would this result in another hard pull and new account? Lastly, would I be able to PYB restaurant charges made in the past 3 months on my CSP card after upgrading it to the CSR?
The other issue is that if you're wanting the current 80K SUB, there's no telling how long it'll last. May or may not be there in a few months. And, if you want a SUB then you can't have a Sapphire card currently open.
May 8, 2022, 4:33 pm
#810
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 4,349
Got a question. My annual fee dates are spread out over two cards currently, $95/yr on Marriott Bonvoy and UnitedPlus Explorer, I have had both cards for more than 10 years, have never asked for a retention, but getting tried of paying for them as I am not getting any benefits. I live outside the US, cannot use the travel coupons and have only once used a Marriott free night coupon when I visited family in the US 4 years ago. What can I expect and how should I go about asking for a bonus? I really do not want to downgrade or cancel the cards, but if they do not offer something I may very well have to. It is not worth paying thousands and getting nothing in return. I have never redeemed the miles or points on either card.
Suggestions? What should I expect as an offer? Nothing? $100?
Suggestions? What should I expect as an offer? Nothing? $100?
Call the retention number or use the online chat and ask for the retention department to see if you have any offers on your card and then decide if you want to cancel. But it seems to me that since you aren't getting any value what so ever out of these cards so why not just cancel?