Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
May 7, 2020, 11:49 am
#61
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Western NY
Posts: 13
CIP AF refund more than 30 days after posting?
Hi there,
I have a CIP whose AF hit in April - my intent was to cancel it and get the AF refund, but I forgot. Does the CIP do prorated refunds after 30 days?
I have a CIP whose AF hit in April - my intent was to cancel it and get the AF refund, but I forgot. Does the CIP do prorated refunds after 30 days?
May 21, 2020, 7:27 am
#63
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
I'm thinking to try the $300 travel credit double dip and then downgrade.
My account statement ends on 23 May, and on the phone the rep said the $300 travel credit will become available again on 24 May. The annual fee I was told will be charged on 1 June. Does anyone know whether I have 30 days to downgrade and have the annual fee refunded, and whether the 30 days would be from 23 May or 1 June?
My account statement ends on 23 May, and on the phone the rep said the $300 travel credit will become available again on 24 May. The annual fee I was told will be charged on 1 June. Does anyone know whether I have 30 days to downgrade and have the annual fee refunded, and whether the 30 days would be from 23 May or 1 June?
Last edited by pallhedge; May 21, 2020 at 7:28 am Reason: Bolding for clarity.
May 21, 2020, 7:45 am
#64
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 617
It's definitely not 30 days from 23 May as you will not have even been charged your annual fee yet. If you assume 30 days from 1 June, you will certainly be covered, though I think it's even longer than that. At last check, for downgrades you get ~40 days for a full refund. If you cancel, you have 30 days from 23 June (the statement that has your AF on it).
I am honestly also surprised to hear that my previous undering about the dates was completely wrong? So you mean I would have 30 or 40 days to downgrade and get a full refund of the annual fee from 01 July, 2020 (in my example) instead of 01 June? So it's 30 days from the end of statement where the annual fee appears and not 30 days from the date when the annual fee appears as a transaction?
I originally got the card in mid-May 2019 so if I could keep the card all the way until 01 August, 2020 but downgrade before 01 August and get the full annual fee back then honestly I would be very happy. I just wish to confirm guys that is correct. Thank you very much
May 21, 2020, 11:00 am
#65
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,956
May 21, 2020, 8:08 pm
#66
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 617
edit: I find it amazing (in a good way) that I got the card in mid-May, yet it seems like I get to keep it until end of July, 2020, and still get the annual fee for the second year refunded with this gameplan.
Last edited by mia; May 22, 2020 at 3:20 pm
May 21, 2020, 8:18 pm
#67
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 617
mia was explaining to me in the other thread that we have 30 days to downgrade the card and get the full AF refunded from the date the statement is issued that has the AF posted to it.
For example, annual fee gets charged 1 June.. statement ends on 25 June.. so I have until 25 July to downgrade the Chase Sapphire Reserve to get a full refund ($450) of the annual fee charged. Is that correct? I think I have almost wrapped my head around this.. almost.
I have not used the $60 DoorDash credit yet, because I've been overseas. I am hoping to use it for ordering food around 20 June. Do the DoorDash purchases get credited immediately at the end of the statement? So like I order DoorDash on 20 June.. my statement ends on 25 June. Should I see the DoorDash up to $60 credited immediately?
I plan to book a refundable hotel sometime after 1 June to double dip on the $300 travel credit. Does it still work booking a refundable hotel even if we cancel it immediately after? I have been reading a lot of threads on FlyerTalk in the last few days figuring out how to use all the benefits on the card before I downgrade. As far as I can tell this seems to be the best plan to maximize the benefits of the card before downgrading. It feels a bit strange doing things this way, but it does seem to be the best way to maximize it.
For example, annual fee gets charged 1 June.. statement ends on 25 June.. so I have until 25 July to downgrade the Chase Sapphire Reserve to get a full refund ($450) of the annual fee charged. Is that correct? I think I have almost wrapped my head around this.. almost.
I have not used the $60 DoorDash credit yet, because I've been overseas. I am hoping to use it for ordering food around 20 June. Do the DoorDash purchases get credited immediately at the end of the statement? So like I order DoorDash on 20 June.. my statement ends on 25 June. Should I see the DoorDash up to $60 credited immediately?
I plan to book a refundable hotel sometime after 1 June to double dip on the $300 travel credit. Does it still work booking a refundable hotel even if we cancel it immediately after? I have been reading a lot of threads on FlyerTalk in the last few days figuring out how to use all the benefits on the card before I downgrade. As far as I can tell this seems to be the best plan to maximize the benefits of the card before downgrading. It feels a bit strange doing things this way, but it does seem to be the best way to maximize it.
May 21, 2020, 8:44 pm
#68
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,956
May 22, 2020, 1:26 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
hi @pallhedge, I'm just wondering where do you see the 40 day datapoints on people downgrading from the CSR? thank you very much
May 22, 2020, 3:24 pm
#70
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,956
On cancellation there is a 30 day period measured from the statement date to qualify for a refund, and it's all or nothing, no prorated refunds on cancellation.
On downgrade there is a 40 day period measured from the annual fee posting date (which is always the 1st of the month), and prorated refunds thereafter?
May 22, 2020, 3:33 pm
#71
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
To clarify:
On cancellation there is a 30 day period measured from the statement date to qualify for a refund, and it's all or nothing, no prorated refunds on cancellation.
On downgrade there is a 40 day period measured from the annual fee posting date (which is always the 1st of the month), and prorated refunds thereafter?
On cancellation there is a 30 day period measured from the statement date to qualify for a refund, and it's all or nothing, no prorated refunds on cancellation.
On downgrade there is a 40 day period measured from the annual fee posting date (which is always the 1st of the month), and prorated refunds thereafter?
May 22, 2020, 9:57 pm
#72
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 617
Someone a while back posted on Reddit a Secure Message conversation with Chase that had the number in it, and there were some, but very few, ensuing data points. The 40 days is from June 1, so I don't know where you're getting "end of July" from. Keep in mind, this is a completely different policy than for cancellations.
I understand now that it is 40 days from 1 June when the annual fee is supposed to post. I guess that should be 10 July? I will downgrade my card before 10 July and get the annual fee refunded. I'm happy to hear that. I originally got the card in early May, 2019, and just surprised that I get to keep it those extra two months, while still getting the annual fee refunded.
This year has been rough, and in my case, I can't do the annual fee for a second year.
Last edited by FlyingSloth; May 22, 2020 at 10:15 pm
May 28, 2020, 12:20 pm
#73
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,346
As the Chase phone number is for urgent calls only, I was wondering how you go about product changing a UR or United card these days.
May 28, 2020, 1:14 pm
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,790
May 29, 2020, 5:27 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Starwood Platinum, AA, SW, Delta
Posts: 885
if i cancel a chase ink preferred card can i move the credit line over to freedom before cancelling