Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Jan 13, 2020, 6:45 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,060
Advice Needed: Downgrading CSR-Is this risky?
My Sapphire Reserve has an anniversary of March 6, when I got the card officially at a branch in 2017. However, looking at history, my annual fee is always charged in April, so I don't know 100% what the annual fee will be when I am charged, though I am thinking it will be $550.
I like the card, but I also have the Chase Ritz card, Amex Green, Gold, and Platinum. Of those cards, it is easier for me to utilize all of the Amex credits and many of the benefits overlap.
Depending on what my renewal fee is for the CSR, I am planning to downgrade. However, I have a lot of Chase points that I am planning to combine with Amex for a trip to Australia or Japan. However, I pobably won't take the trip for 2+ years.
I know I could easily downgrade the CSR to a CSP with a $95 annual fee, but I don't plan to put much spend on the CSP. I currently have a Chase Freedom Unlimited. It has been a Freedom Unlimited for several years.
My plan is to transfer all my Chase points from my CSR to my Freedom Unlimited and then product change the CSR to a regular Freedom card.
When I get ready to plan my big trip and transfer my points to airlines, I'll upgrade my Freedom Unlimited card back to a CSP or CSR and then keep it for at least a year while I use my stash of Chase points. Doing this would save me a $95 annual fee for the 2+ years before I take my trip and I am assuming I could just call and product change whenever I wanted to, since I haven't product changed my Freedom Unlimited for a few years.
Does anyone see any risks with this strategy? Obviously, the big risk would be if Chase ended the ability to transfer Chase Ultimate Reward points between cards with little or no notice.
I like the card, but I also have the Chase Ritz card, Amex Green, Gold, and Platinum. Of those cards, it is easier for me to utilize all of the Amex credits and many of the benefits overlap.
Depending on what my renewal fee is for the CSR, I am planning to downgrade. However, I have a lot of Chase points that I am planning to combine with Amex for a trip to Australia or Japan. However, I pobably won't take the trip for 2+ years.
I know I could easily downgrade the CSR to a CSP with a $95 annual fee, but I don't plan to put much spend on the CSP. I currently have a Chase Freedom Unlimited. It has been a Freedom Unlimited for several years.
My plan is to transfer all my Chase points from my CSR to my Freedom Unlimited and then product change the CSR to a regular Freedom card.
When I get ready to plan my big trip and transfer my points to airlines, I'll upgrade my Freedom Unlimited card back to a CSP or CSR and then keep it for at least a year while I use my stash of Chase points. Doing this would save me a $95 annual fee for the 2+ years before I take my trip and I am assuming I could just call and product change whenever I wanted to, since I haven't product changed my Freedom Unlimited for a few years.
Does anyone see any risks with this strategy? Obviously, the big risk would be if Chase ended the ability to transfer Chase Ultimate Reward points between cards with little or no notice.
Jan 13, 2020, 9:19 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
Programs: DL DM, Hyatt Ist-iest, Stariott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,782
Jan 14, 2020, 5:12 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: DC
Programs: UA, SPG, Amtrak
Posts: 145
I have the old United Chase card that gave 10k PQM for spend. The new terms are vague about awarding any PQPs. Has anyone found out?
The card used to say the following:
"Up to 10,000 PQM annually: You’ll receive 5,000 PQM annually during which at least $35,000 is spent, and one additional purchase is made at least one day after you have spent $35,000; you’ll receive up to an additional 5,000 PQM annually at a rate of 1 PQM for each $1 spent on purchases made directly at united.com"
Now it says "Ways to earn bonus miles or PQP • We may offer you ways to earn bonus miles through this program or special promotions. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles you can earn and any other terms at the time of the offer. The additional terms will be part of this agreement. • United may offer you ways to earn bonus miles or PQP on purchases made with a card by you or an authorized user of the account. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles or PQP you can earn at the time of the offer or within the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program."
Does any United card award PQPs in a decent way? Has anyone changed their old card to a new one?
The card used to say the following:
"Up to 10,000 PQM annually: You’ll receive 5,000 PQM annually during which at least $35,000 is spent, and one additional purchase is made at least one day after you have spent $35,000; you’ll receive up to an additional 5,000 PQM annually at a rate of 1 PQM for each $1 spent on purchases made directly at united.com"
Now it says "Ways to earn bonus miles or PQP • We may offer you ways to earn bonus miles through this program or special promotions. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles you can earn and any other terms at the time of the offer. The additional terms will be part of this agreement. • United may offer you ways to earn bonus miles or PQP on purchases made with a card by you or an authorized user of the account. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles or PQP you can earn at the time of the offer or within the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program."
Does any United card award PQPs in a decent way? Has anyone changed their old card to a new one?
Jan 14, 2020, 7:20 pm
#19
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,095
I have the old United Chase card that gave 10k PQM for spend. The new terms are vague about awarding any PQPs. Has anyone found out?
The card used to say the following:
"Up to 10,000 PQM annually: You’ll receive 5,000 PQM annually during which at least $35,000 is spent, and one additional purchase is made at least one day after you have spent $35,000; you’ll receive up to an additional 5,000 PQM annually at a rate of 1 PQM for each $1 spent on purchases made directly at united.com"
Now it says "Ways to earn bonus miles or PQP • We may offer you ways to earn bonus miles through this program or special promotions. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles you can earn and any other terms at the time of the offer. The additional terms will be part of this agreement. • United may offer you ways to earn bonus miles or PQP on purchases made with a card by you or an authorized user of the account. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles or PQP you can earn at the time of the offer or within the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program."
Does any United card award PQPs in a decent way? Has anyone changed their old card to a new one?
The card used to say the following:
"Up to 10,000 PQM annually: You’ll receive 5,000 PQM annually during which at least $35,000 is spent, and one additional purchase is made at least one day after you have spent $35,000; you’ll receive up to an additional 5,000 PQM annually at a rate of 1 PQM for each $1 spent on purchases made directly at united.com"
Now it says "Ways to earn bonus miles or PQP • We may offer you ways to earn bonus miles through this program or special promotions. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles you can earn and any other terms at the time of the offer. The additional terms will be part of this agreement. • United may offer you ways to earn bonus miles or PQP on purchases made with a card by you or an authorized user of the account. You’ll find out more about the number of bonus miles or PQP you can earn at the time of the offer or within the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program."
Does any United card award PQPs in a decent way? Has anyone changed their old card to a new one?
Just for reference, there is a thread on United cards in the United Airline forum. That thread is here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...f-changes.html
Jan 16, 2020, 10:39 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charlotte NC USA
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, AA Exec Plat, Alaska 75k, IHG Diamond, Wyndham Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 863
Thanks all for the thoughtful contributions to this thread!
I have a related question. I read several years ago (sorry, can't recall where) that reallocating to a Chase card such that it is boosted to a limit > $35k requires human underwriting. OTOH, keeping the card ,</= $35k can be done without this level of underwriting.
Does anyone have any datapoints or other evidence on this issue?
I'm trying to decide whether to reallocate a CFU card to > $35K, and this would be a factor in my decision.
TIA for any help!
I have a related question. I read several years ago (sorry, can't recall where) that reallocating to a Chase card such that it is boosted to a limit > $35k requires human underwriting. OTOH, keeping the card ,</= $35k can be done without this level of underwriting.
Does anyone have any datapoints or other evidence on this issue?
I'm trying to decide whether to reallocate a CFU card to > $35K, and this would be a factor in my decision.
TIA for any help!
Feb 4, 2020, 4:15 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
Programs: UA MM Plat, UA 1MM, Hilton Lifetime Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold, CLEAR, AS MVP Gold
Posts: 3,614
As a long time Chase Club Card holder I wanted to dump the Chase Club Card at renewal date and/or change to the Explorer Card for several reasons. Was going to do it at its renewal date but missed it last Dec. Can I still request a change and a rebate? I may keep the card as the renewal fee was $350 and I thought the Club Card fee was now something north of $450 now???
Feb 6, 2020, 10:13 am
#22
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 139
Do you still have 30 days after the statement end date on which the AF posts to product change without penalty? Or is it 30 days from the date the AF posts
Also, can you downgrade a CSR to a no-annual fee sapphire? Or do you have to go from CSP to no annual fee sapphire
Also, can you downgrade a CSR to a no-annual fee sapphire? Or do you have to go from CSP to no annual fee sapphire
Feb 6, 2020, 11:07 am
#23
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Everything is tied to the statement date. The rule is printed on your paper/PDF statement every month.
Feb 9, 2020, 8:31 am
#24
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 139
I also got this message via SM: "...the annual fee is eligible to be refunded in full, if a product change is processed within 30 days from the annual fee billed to your account."
It seems like the 30-day rule from statement may only apply to account closures now instead of product changes
Feb 10, 2020, 6:44 am
#25
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
There is a pretty clear DP on /r/churning of someone who received a pro-rated refund when they PC'd their CIP 30 days after the AF posted, but before 30 days from statement date.
I also got this message via SM: "...the annual fee is eligible to be refunded in full, if a product change is processed within 30 days from the annual fee billed to your account."
It seems like the 30-day rule from statement may only apply to account closures now instead of product changes
I also got this message via SM: "...the annual fee is eligible to be refunded in full, if a product change is processed within 30 days from the annual fee billed to your account."
It seems like the 30-day rule from statement may only apply to account closures now instead of product changes
To my knowledge, there is no written version of Chase's annual fee refund policy as it relates to product changes. It could very well be fluid. The policy on each pdf statement relates only to card cancellations. It is silent on product changes.
Feb 10, 2020, 6:58 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 139
You may be referring to me as your DP. I did this last year intentionally to test the policy. If not, then I am a second DP for you.
To my knowledge, there is no written version of Chase's annual fee refund policy as it relates to product changes. It could very well be fluid. The policy on each pdf statement relates only to card cancellations. It is silent on product changes.
To my knowledge, there is no written version of Chase's annual fee refund policy as it relates to product changes. It could very well be fluid. The policy on each pdf statement relates only to card cancellations. It is silent on product changes.
Feb 17, 2020, 8:19 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 251
Does anybody know what effect a downgrade from the United Club card to the United Explorer card will have as far as the free bag(s) benefit for a flight previously booked on the Club card?
How hard is it to downgrade the Club to Explorer and then upgrade back to the Club again? I won't be flying for many months and I don't want to pay for the Club card when I can't use it.
How hard is it to downgrade the Club to Explorer and then upgrade back to the Club again? I won't be flying for many months and I don't want to pay for the Club card when I can't use it.
Feb 19, 2020, 9:52 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: PHL
Programs: US; AA; UA; Hilton Gold; Club Carlson Gold; IHG Platinum;
Posts: 388
Trying to interpret annual fee refund policy printed on monthly statement: "The annual membership fee is not refundable unless you notify us that you wish to close your account within 30 days or one billing cycle (whichever is less) after we provide the statement on which the annual membership fee is billed". What exactly "One billing cycle" mean in this context? If annual fee on my CSR posts on March 1 and statement date is March 17 when is my deadline for closing the account? Is it April 1 or April 17? Also, it is my understanding that $300 travel credit for 2020 can be earned on transactions posted after my March statement is issued (March 17). Does this mean I can earn 2020 travel credit and then close the account before the deadline to get my full annual fee refunded?
Feb 19, 2020, 10:28 am
#29
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,952
Only the statement date matters. The posting date of the annual fee is not mentioned in this sentence. It is irrelevant. A customer service agent may assert that it is relevant, but make them read the sentence aloud and explain it to you.
Feb 19, 2020, 11:08 am
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR/PHL/BWI
Posts: 4,412
On the contrary, at least so far. It's only had more benefits added to it since it was discontinued to new applicants, namely the addition of the 50k anniversary night cert. Also the partnership hasn't been discontinued. In case you didn't notice Chase still issues Marriott cards, they just don't have the right to issue new "ultra premium consumer" cards. Amex took over that portion of the turf with the Marriott Brilliant card.