Jan 6, 2020, 8:19 pm
Last edit by: beltway
This is the 2020-2022 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Discussion from 2016 to 2019 can be found in this closed thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24-48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
If you downgrade a card to a lower- or no-fee alternative, you can always upgrade back to the original card type (paying the AF, of course) if you want to have the additional benefits again. Doing so does not have any effect on your */24 count; OTOH, applying for the card anew will increase your */24 count (always for personal cards & sometimes even for business cards). When you upgrade, you will receive a pro-rated refund of your current card’s annual fee (if any) and then be charged the full annual fee of the upgraded card, thus changing the account’s anniversary date.
Another reason to downgrade a card, if such an option exists, instead of canceling is that you’ll receive a pro rata refund of the AF no matter when you do it (vs. having only 30 days from the date of the statement with AF on it to get a refund if you cancel outright). This can be extremely useful if you need to use a premium card’s benefit—free checked bag, car rental insurance, PreCheck rebate, etc. etc.—more than 30 days after your AF statement. Simply keep the card until you’ve used the relevant benefit & then downgrade; you’ll get a proportional refund of the AF no matter how long this take place after your AF is billed.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less than one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Note: you will also keep your same account number except where the change is from a Visa to MC or vice versa (e.g., Sapphire Preferred to Freedom Flex) —but even in this limited case, the new card will inherit all the old card’s attributes on your credit report.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 3X on dining, 3x on drugstores, 1.5X for all other spending, no quarterly bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Flex: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories (same ones as for Freedom) up to $1500 spend per quarter, 3X on drugstores, 1x all other spend.
- Sapphire Reserve: $550 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: $95 annual fee, 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading UR cards
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Club Infinite Card- $525 annual fee, 4 miles per $1 travel, 2 miles per $1 dining
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
There are three different IHG cards in the Chase portfolio:
- IHG Select: No longer available for new signups. For a $49 annual fee, cardholders get a free-night certificate (up to 40K points) every anniversary; a 10% rebate on award redemptions; and Platinum status. The consensus view on FT is that the low fee and automatic rebate on this make a product change undesirable.
- IHG Premier: $89 annual fee after the first year. Benefits include 40K anniversary free-night cert; Platinum status; Fourth Night Free on awards; and rebate on Global Entry ($100) or TSA PreCheck ($85) application/renewal fees.
- IHG Traveler: Gold status and Fourth Night Free benefit; no free-night cert.
- As of June 2021, downgrades to the Traveler card incur a $29 annual fee even though the current Traveler sign-up offer is for a no-fee card.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? 2020 - 2022
Jan 20, 2021, 2:30 pm
#286
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR, GVA
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 78
That's what I figured so I tried to find out when the bonus was posted in 2017 but couldn't find it. I'll just wait a few months and then apply for CSP..
Jan 20, 2021, 3:36 pm
#287
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
Jan 21, 2021, 7:56 pm
#288
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
My DW has an Ink Plus card she no longer needs & has asked Chase via SM to downgrade it to Ink Cash. The current credit line is more than the minimum ($500) for Cash, but Chase keeps insisting that they won’t downgrade over SM & she has to call instead to conduct a thorough review yadda yadda, which sounds like utter [nonsense]. I’d hoped to get a pro-rated refund of the AF, but it isn’t worth having Chase asking probing questions about the business in question.
I’ve done downgrades on personal cards before and it was never anything but a breeze. Have others run into this obstacle on the biz-card side?
I’ve done downgrades on personal cards before and it was never anything but a breeze. Have others run into this obstacle on the biz-card side?
Jan 22, 2021, 6:57 am
#289
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
My DW has an Ink Plus card she no longer needs & has asked Chase via SM to downgrade it to Ink Cash. The current credit line is more than the minimum ($500) for Cash, but Chase keeps insisting that they won’t downgrade over SM & she has to call instead to conduct a thorough review yadda yadda, which sounds like utter [nonsense]. I’d hoped to get a pro-rated refund of the AF, but it isn’t worth having Chase asking probing questions about the business in question.
I’ve done downgrades on personal cards before and it was never anything but a breeze. Have others run into this obstacle on the biz-card side?
I’ve done downgrades on personal cards before and it was never anything but a breeze. Have others run into this obstacle on the biz-card side?
Second, the minimum CL to be able to product change is $5,000 ($10,000 to product change to CSR or Ritz).
Jan 22, 2021, 11:40 am
#290
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
There are two things at play here. Chase no longer does product changes via SM. You must call. There are no probing questions during this call, just a long disclosure. They only ask for the reason you want to change. I did this earlier in the week.
Second, the minimum CL to be able to product change is $5,000 ($10,000 to product change to CSR or Ritz).
Second, the minimum CL to be able to product change is $5,000 ($10,000 to product change to CSR or Ritz).
Jan 23, 2021, 6:27 pm
#291
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 93
I searched and tried to find a good answer to this.
I am thinking about downgrading my CSR. I feel like at some point I may want it back though. I am way over 5/24 and doubt I will be getting any new. What can I downgrade to and then upgrade later? I won't be using the card at all so the perks don't matter, just that I could upgrade back to CSR through a product change later. I currently have the CSR, Freedom Unlimited, and regular Freedom. At Chase I also have Ink Cash, Bonvoy Boundless, and two IHG cards.
I have never received a retention offer in the card, so I suppose that is an option. But I feel like those are hard to come by right now. I just have other cards that I am using more/that provide more value for me. But I fear I wouldn't be able to get another CSR if I had to apply straight out.
Thank you.
I am thinking about downgrading my CSR. I feel like at some point I may want it back though. I am way over 5/24 and doubt I will be getting any new. What can I downgrade to and then upgrade later? I won't be using the card at all so the perks don't matter, just that I could upgrade back to CSR through a product change later. I currently have the CSR, Freedom Unlimited, and regular Freedom. At Chase I also have Ink Cash, Bonvoy Boundless, and two IHG cards.
I have never received a retention offer in the card, so I suppose that is an option. But I feel like those are hard to come by right now. I just have other cards that I am using more/that provide more value for me. But I fear I wouldn't be able to get another CSR if I had to apply straight out.
Thank you.
Jan 24, 2021, 6:00 am
#292
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,958
2. Until the 4th quarter of 2020 no one had received a Sapphire Reserve retention offer. Availability of these offers is literally the best they have ever been. See: Chase Retention Offers (2020/ARCHIVED) and https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chas...rs-2021-a.html
Jan 24, 2021, 1:13 pm
#293
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: UA 1K - 2.1MM, HH LT Diamond, IHG Diamond, Bonvoy LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 766
Why not call and see if they will give a statement credit offer? This will usually offset the AF.
Jan 26, 2021, 1:08 pm
#294
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AS MVPG, HA Plat
Posts: 1,268
Just downgraded CSR to Freedom. No questions asked about why and no attempt to retain. Had to work through online menu to get a representative on the line and he didn't know his products as well as I did, despite being nominally a Chase executive line rep, so nothing about the call made me second-guess myself on prioritizing Amex for the time being. Will happily pursue another signup bonus on CSP once my refinance closes, but Chase really seems clueless about where it wants to go at the premium level.
Jan 29, 2021, 3:28 am
#295
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 84
Questions regarding PC from Freedom to CSR
I originally got my CSR in April 2017 and PC it to Freedom Unlimited in May 2019 before finally PC it to Freedom in June 2020. Now I am considering PCing back to CSR. Here are some questions:
(1) Since the last PC was in June 2020, will this account be forbidden to do another PC now?
(2) Roughly when will the first $300 travel credit be available for use? Roughly when will the second $300 be available?
(3) Roughly when will the annual fee for CSR be charged?
(4) If the travel does not resume soon, will I have the option to downgrade this new CSR back to Freedom before one full year after the PC?
Thanks a lot!
(1) Since the last PC was in June 2020, will this account be forbidden to do another PC now?
(2) Roughly when will the first $300 travel credit be available for use? Roughly when will the second $300 be available?
(3) Roughly when will the annual fee for CSR be charged?
(4) If the travel does not resume soon, will I have the option to downgrade this new CSR back to Freedom before one full year after the PC?
Thanks a lot!
Jan 29, 2021, 7:19 am
#296
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,857
I originally got my CSR in April 2017 and PC it to Freedom Unlimited in May 2019 before finally PC it to Freedom in June 2020. Now I am considering PCing back to CSR. Here are some questions:
(1) Since the last PC was in June 2020, will this account be forbidden to do another PC now?
(2) Roughly when will the first $300 travel credit be available for use? Roughly when will the second $300 be available?
(3) Roughly when will the annual fee for CSR be charged?
(4) If the travel does not resume soon, will I have the option to downgrade this new CSR back to Freedom before one full year after the PC?
Thanks a lot!
(1) Since the last PC was in June 2020, will this account be forbidden to do another PC now?
(2) Roughly when will the first $300 travel credit be available for use? Roughly when will the second $300 be available?
(3) Roughly when will the annual fee for CSR be charged?
(4) If the travel does not resume soon, will I have the option to downgrade this new CSR back to Freedom before one full year after the PC?
Thanks a lot!
2. The initial $300 should be available as soon as you PC. The second depends on what Chase deems your card anniversary date.
3. The $550 AF will post 4-5 months after you PC
4. You can, but I wouldn't get into the habit of PCing the same card too many times. Chase may eventually consider that abusive behavior.
Jan 29, 2021, 8:31 am
#297
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 84
1. You can PC again.
2. The initial $300 should be available as soon as you PC. The second depends on what Chase deems your card anniversary date.
3. The $550 AF will post 4-5 months after you PC
4. You can, but I wouldn't get into the habit of PCing the same card too many times. Chase may eventually consider that abusive behavior.
2. The initial $300 should be available as soon as you PC. The second depends on what Chase deems your card anniversary date.
3. The $550 AF will post 4-5 months after you PC
4. You can, but I wouldn't get into the habit of PCing the same card too many times. Chase may eventually consider that abusive behavior.
Jan 29, 2021, 8:42 am
#298
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
*Bonus anniversary is not your application approval date, it's the date of the statement on which your sign-up bonus appeared. Chase's website provides seven years worth of past statements, if you need to look that up. If you apply just one day early, Chase can deny your application.
Jan 29, 2021, 10:24 am
#299
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 84
Or you could wait a while (48 months after your CSR bonus posted*) and then apply for the CSR (assuming you're under 5/24 and don't have another Sapphire card of any kind). Applying would enable you to get another sign-up bonus, PCing wouldn't. You'd still have your Freedom card with all its benefits and its 4-year credit longevity. And if for some reason your application fails, you can always go the PC route then.
*Bonus anniversary is not your application approval date, it's the date of the statement on which your sign-up bonus appeared. Chase's website provides seven years worth of past statements, if you need to look that up. If you apply just one day early, Chase can deny your application.
*Bonus anniversary is not your application approval date, it's the date of the statement on which your sign-up bonus appeared. Chase's website provides seven years worth of past statements, if you need to look that up. If you apply just one day early, Chase can deny your application.
Feb 2, 2021, 6:44 am
#300
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: EWR, GVA
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 78
I did see it under "Ultimate rewards summary" that it was posted sometime in January before the statement was posted on Jan. 16. Does that mean I should be safe to apply now or should I give a little more time for more time to pass just in case?