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Originally Posted by mia
(Post 28565878)
:confused: Reserve is not yet a year old. There have been no renewals.
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The moment I read about this I IMMEDIATELY moved all my points from the Freedom to the CSP. I ain't procrastinating. I will do this monthly from now on.
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented. |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 28567598)
What is astonishing is, the CSR is not even a year old and we have seen 50% bonus cut, now the potential devaluation while not to CSR per se but to the whole UR ecosystem.
2. I will not say it is a devaluation, but instead creating a sub-system within the UR.
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 28567598)
Citi did not devalue Prestige until 3 years after its revamping of the TYP program, and it gave a full year before the devaluation happened.
Originally Posted by BOSTravels
(Post 28567697)
I also predict that Chase will lose a lot of customers to AMEX if this trial balloon is actually implemented.
The proposed change, if implemented, focuses on non-AF UR cards like Freedom or FU. It does not necessarily affect AF UR cards like CSP or CSR. Also - unlike Citi, which has reduced bonus categories reward earning for similar cards to almost non-existence, Freedom and FU are still earning as advertised (for now). This changes will definitely slow down the number of new issuance. But it is not enough to trigger an escape. Don't forget - as a matter of fact, Citi is the one losing, not Chase. |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 28567617)
However AMEX still wins in the depts of customer service primarily in how to handling claims of all covered benefits. - purchase protection, trip interruption, Med Evac which does not even need to use the AMEX Plat card to pay the initial travel, rental car coverage, and just the general disputes - far better than how Chase handles it as Chase outsources the functions completely while AMEX keeps at least the administration in house afaik last time we used such benefits.
For us, it's a reason they're keeper cards rather than churn and burn. |
Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 28567816)
Not really.
The proposed change, if implemented, focuses on non-AF UR cards like Freedom or FU. It does not necessarily affect AF UR cards like CSP or CSR. In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1. |
Originally Posted by BOSTravels
(Post 28567973)
If FU loses the ability to transfer to CSR/CSP and therefore loses transfer to e.g. airlines, AMEX EveryDay will be superior to FU.
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1. |
Am I missing something here? The first option seems to read to only impact the 50% travel credit bonus and not 1:1 partners. So spending the full $1500 in a quarter gets you 7500 points but that would be worth $75 for travel credit not $112.50 with CSR however those same 7500 UR would transfer to United for 7500 miles?
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Originally Posted by mikesyr18
(Post 28565889)
Why would they even ask such a stupid group of questions?
"Would you like it if we made your points less valuable and threw restrictions into the program?" Exactly. What would be the point? This is so silly for them to even float such an idea. The 5/24 rule is dumb enough, and now this? |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 28567967)
Right. AMEX has come thru for us every time when we need to file a dispute or a claim.
Chase on the other hand has an agonizing long process and at the end what it promised still did not come thru on the card. AMEX is both the processor and the network so it has an advantage in dispute and rewards situations. Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy. If you want "Chase" to get rid of high end cards, they would have to get rid of both the JP Morgan Reserve and the Sapphire Reserve, which won't happen. I would say Chase is doing pretty well, even when they've lost money from these cards. |
[redacted]
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change. If you don't like the term "sub-system", I would rather say this as "You get what you pay for". To be fair, Citi does not always give 1 year before the changes. Some changes were noticed for 1-2 months before the change was implemented. Legally speaking - Chase reserves the right to change the T&Cs at any times. With this, Chase can do pretty much as it sees fit.
Originally Posted by BOSTravels
(Post 28567973)
If FU loses the ability to transfer to CSR/CSP and therefore loses transfer to e.g. airlines, AMEX EveryDay will be superior to FU.
Originally Posted by BOSTravels
(Post 28567973)
In fact, if FU becomes a simpleton 1.5% cash back card you might as well get a simpleton 2% cash back card from e.g. Citi or Cap1.
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Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 28568540)
Only half is true. While Citi DC earns 2%, it lacks a bonus that both Chase and Cap1 offer.
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Originally Posted by garykung
(Post 28568540)
It is true that the value of UR will be significantly reduced under the proposed change. However, neither Freedom or FU is designed as a card similar to CSP or CSR. Both Freedom and FU are designed as cashback cards (in the form of UR). Its cashback structure has not been impacted by this proposed change.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway." [redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards. [redacted] |
Originally Posted by Steve in Olympia
(Post 28568872)
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway." [redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards. [redacted]. |
Originally Posted by Happy
(Post 28567617)
Chase should stay with its own mid market level instead of trying to break in the high end cards market. The decision to incur huge acquisition cost has proved to be a costly mistake so far and it could not wait to make remedy. Some analysts estimate that it would take Chase 5 to 6 years to recoup that acquisition cost. A very large percentage of the new customers acquired probably would not renew anyway whether it devalue the UR program or not. Now with the inevitable devaluation of UR program it just adds MORE attrition to the CSR card, as well as the Freedom and Freedom Unlimited card because now a straight 2% cash rebate card looks a whole lot better. Even for the 1.5% CapOne QuickSilver due to it has no Forex Fee and CapOne does not add any Visa network fee to the transaction unlike with all Chase so-called 0 Forex fee cards actually still incur 1% Visa Network fee built in the exchange rates.
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Originally Posted by Steve in Olympia
(Post 28568872)
It is a fallacy to declare that the Freedom cards "are designed as cashback cards" and, since the "cashback structure has not been impacted," the cards have not been devalued. Your argument reaches the desired conclusion only because you assumed the conclusion before you reached it.
This is a classic example of begging the question. As Ambrose Bierce once wrote, "An ostrich doesn't need wings because it can't fly anyway." [redacted] many consumers choose the Freedom cards for the UR benefit.......consumers (like me) who never redeem for cash. We know that those consumers exist because every travel blogger advises their readers that redemptions for cash are the worst possible use of the Freedom cards. [redacted]. All that said, this REALLY sucks for Ink card owners. |
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