Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Dec 2, 2017, 12:10 pm
#601
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,509
Anyone else having problems downgrading (or product changing) from Ink Plus to Ink Cash card? Both myself as well as my business partner are both just past our first anniversary on distinct accounts for different LLCs and wish to downgrade to the Ink Cash to avoid future annual fees. Chase reps are saying that the card can only be PC'd to the Ink Preferred (which also has a $95 AF). Tried both calling as well as SM and got the same response. I recall people in the past being able to PC from Ink + to Ink Cash but seems like they are no longer allowing that product change any more. Am I missing something or is there a multiple step process?
Dec 2, 2017, 2:17 pm
#602
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DCA/RIC
Programs: HH LTD, AA LTG
Posts: 1,015
One thing that is a constant in this hobby is that the card offers and rules to acquire them change over time.
Dec 2, 2017, 7:42 pm
#603
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,509
I dunno? I provided my very dated datapoint because at the time many bloggers mentioned how easy it was to PC to the Ink Classic at the time. That was not my experience and the card was no longer offered for new apps about 2 months later.
One thing that is a constant in this hobby is that the card offers and rules to acquire them change over time.
One thing that is a constant in this hobby is that the card offers and rules to acquire them change over time.
Dec 3, 2017, 11:17 am
#604
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
This is what we did with 2 Ink Bold cardholders. We kept the CSR as the premium (transferable points) card due to the 3x travel and, at $450-300=$150, it's really only $55 more than any of the others which are $95 per year. Since we won't be anywhere near maxing out either the $50K or $25K x 2 per year at OSS, there's no point to having that excess perk in the portfolio. Chase has offered retention bonuses now and again on our Ink cards, but it seems like that's been a few years.
Dec 3, 2017, 6:23 pm
#605
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DCA/RIC
Programs: HH LTD, AA LTG
Posts: 1,015
My point was/is there is a lot of YMMV when it comes to this hobby and the banks do change the rules for us who willfully play along. Not a complaint, just a statement of fact as I see it.
Dec 7, 2017, 11:23 am
#606
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,509
Anyone else having problems downgrading (or product changing) from Ink Plus to Ink Cash card? Both myself as well as my business partner are both just past our first anniversary on distinct accounts for different LLCs and wish to downgrade to the Ink Cash to avoid future annual fees. Chase reps are saying that the card can only be PC'd to the Ink Preferred (which also has a $95 AF). Tried both calling as well as SM and got the same response. I recall people in the past being able to PC from Ink + to Ink Cash but seems like they are no longer allowing that product change any more. Am I missing something or is there a multiple step process?
Dec 7, 2017, 7:47 pm
#607
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 222
Thanks for the data point. I have escalated to managers and for some reason it's not an option on my account. Can you tell me how long you had your Ink Plus prior to downgrading it?
Dec 8, 2017, 12:25 pm
#609
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 32
To add another affirmative datapoint, I downgraded my Chase Ink Plus (opened in 2014) a few weeks ago to a Chase Ink Cash, and there was no issue (even though I already have another Chase Ink Cash still open).
Dec 10, 2017, 11:14 am
#610
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 4
Number of PCs restriction?
I PC'd my CSR into a CF earlier this year when the AF came up. I now have buyers remorse and want to re-PC back to a CSR. Will they let me do it? Also, will my travel credit reset for the year?
Dec 12, 2017, 8:49 am
#611
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
I don't see why they wouldn't. Your travel credit is about to reset for the 2018 year, if it hasn't already. You wouldn't double dip the 2017 credit regardless, because, presumably, the account number is the same regardless of the product you've downgraded to or would upgrade back to.
Dec 12, 2017, 3:03 pm
#612
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 16
I have had the CSR for over a year now and just got the JPMR. Is there a reason for me to keep both cards? The JPMR does everything the CSR has (I think), and throws in a United Club membership to top it. Thoughts?
Additionally, I used to have the CSP which I downgraded to a CF...
Additionally, I used to have the CSP which I downgraded to a CF...
Dec 12, 2017, 4:47 pm
#613
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,959
Dec 16, 2017, 5:27 am
#614
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 244
Hello everyone - need some advice! I had gotten my in-laws to sign up for CSR to take advantage of the 100K sign up offer and their accounts are up for renewal this month. Their spending patterns do not justify holding on to the card even for effective AF of $150. My initial thought when I signed them up was to have them sign up for CSP this year and get that bonus as well and downgrade CSR but based on my reading it doesn't seem like they'll be eligible for another Sapphire card sign up bonus for atleast another year .. is that correct? They also currently have no travel plans that I can help them use their points on before downgrading/canceling so I am looking at best options to "park" their points until they are ready to use. Options I am considering:
i) Downgrade both their accounts to Freedom Unlimited and then when ready to book travel/need to transfer points upgrade to CSP? The after booking/transferring downgrade back to FU? Is this allowed? If I do that will the AF get prorated and refunded or once you upgrade to a fee card you end up paying the AF for the whole year?
ii) Should I combine their UR points into one of their accounts before doing any of the downgrades or is it better for the points to sit in their individual accounts until ready to use? (they are unlikely to take trips on their own so I am leaning towards combining their points so I'll only need to upgrade one account to enable transfer to partners)
Your thoughts appreciated!
i) Downgrade both their accounts to Freedom Unlimited and then when ready to book travel/need to transfer points upgrade to CSP? The after booking/transferring downgrade back to FU? Is this allowed? If I do that will the AF get prorated and refunded or once you upgrade to a fee card you end up paying the AF for the whole year?
ii) Should I combine their UR points into one of their accounts before doing any of the downgrades or is it better for the points to sit in their individual accounts until ready to use? (they are unlikely to take trips on their own so I am leaning towards combining their points so I'll only need to upgrade one account to enable transfer to partners)
Your thoughts appreciated!
Dec 16, 2017, 8:25 am
#615
Moderator: Travel Buzz
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,099
ii) Should I combine their UR points into one of their accounts before doing any of the downgrades or is it better for the points to sit in their individual accounts until ready to use? (they are unlikely to take trips on their own so I am leaning towards combining their points so I'll only need to upgrade one account to enable transfer to partners)
They sound like they may permanently be below 5/24. Perhaps, instead of upgrading to a transferable card, you could apply for a new CSP when the time comes that they'll be using points.